What's invovled in getting a Patent???

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

I've searched and searched the net for this as it's something I'd buy if it already existed. There's plenty that do the same thing, but not how I want it to. What I've done is found another way to do something that is ALLOT cheaper. It might not be better overall, but for a fraction of the cost, there's a huge advantage to it. Or at least I think so.

My reason for looking into a Patent is it's also something that can be easily built by just about anybody once they see it. Why it's not out there already has me baffled.

Being how simple it is, I don't think I can make any money with it because everybody will just make there own. I might be able to make a buck selling the plans on ebay or even take out an add on this site, but again, it's doubtful that anybody would pay for this once they see how it's done.

That said, I'm really just considering the Patent route as an option just in case some manufacturer decides to make and sell them. It's my idea, so I'd like to protect it if I can. It would also be nice to say I own a Patent and invented something. Ego sort of thing to be honest. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

www.uspto.gov is the website for Patents. It's pretty confusing and probably a waste of time. The other websites that want to help in filing one apear to be ways to through money away that I'll never see again from this thing I've thought up. Hireing a Lawyer will cost thousands of dollars, which leads me back to being able to reclaim that investment from this thing. It just doesn't seem reasonable to expect to make any money off of it.

Eddie

 

[moeh1]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I've written enough of them that it is tough to get the ambition going. Most patents are not very high value. If you can't protect your idea with it, you should look at other options. If this is commercially produced and you can save the vendor real costs, one will likely pay for it (and prosecute the patent on your behalf) to keep it away from competitors. BTW, you need a patent attorney registered with the USPTO to file, and even if you were able to do alot of the work yourself, count on several grand invested. Then you need to think about US versus worldwide coverage, with additional expenses. Think about creative options here to sell your idea.

 

[RonR]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie,

Of course, WE WANT TO BUILD IT! I want one and I don't even know what it is!

You're teasin' us, man.................... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Trying to drive us CRAZY.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well, it's working, at least on me.

Good luck in your endeavor, and be sure to post a pic after you've protected it /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Ron

 

[Charlie_in_TX]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie, a couple of posters have said this but not in these exact words. A patent is only as you are able to inforce it. I have a patent on a generator protection device. I know of at least one company that (IMO) is infrienging on my patent. I am not willing to spend the $100ks to defend the patent. I am a company of 6 people, they are on the NYSE, I would go bankrupt before I got to court. With I had the $50k back it cost to get that piece of c***.

 

[AndyMA]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I'm an engineer and have been granted several patents. In each case ot cost about $10,000 to get. There are 2 types of patents one patents a concept and the other patents a design. The design patents aren't worth much in my opinion as if you make a minor change in the implementation of your invention your patent won't cover it and there is no infringement. Personally I think design patents are a marketing ploy so that you can say your product is patented.

"Concept" patents are harder to obtain. You need to document each time you work (think ) about your invention in a notebook and disclose the information to a person knowledgable in the field, but not a coinventor. This is typically known as a "known and understand" signature.

I suggest that you pick a patent or 2 from the US Patent website and review it closely. Pay particular attention to the claims and perfered embodiment. A large portion of the patient claims are also based on prior art as you will see from the referenced patents.

Good luck. Also remember that which is obvious in not usually patentable.

Andy

 

[BobRip]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Remember, you can only stop somebody else from making your product by taking them to court. Getting the patent is cheap, only 1000's of dollars. Defending it will probably cost you every thing you own, and then the company you are fighting will apeal and you will not have enough money to fight again. IMHO the only people who should patent are very large companies with lot's of money and lots of lawyers. Remember the patent system was setup by lawyers to allow lawyers to make money off of you. Your best bet is to publish your idea in a magazine, the internet, etc. That way somebody else can make it, but you and a few others will know its yours. If your main goal is to send money to lawyers, then get a patent, otherwise take your money and buy a new tractor, a new car, a trip to Las Vegas and some other items. It will be cheaper, take a lot less time, and you will be a lot happier.
Just my opinion,

Bob Rip

 

[Bill_in_MI]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I have been dealing with patents for many years in the businesses I have been associated with. Much of what has been said here I agree with...I even think the costs given are a little low. There is filing cost, lawyers, periodic maintenance costs to the patent office. My personal experience is that around $20 to $25 k is what should be budgeted. Many also have the mistaken idea that a patent in and of itself adds a lot of value. People forget that the "product" needs to be economically justifiable on it's own...presumably without a patent. The value of the patent is what having a monopoly in the product adds to that value. And, as others have said, you only get the right to exclude others by suing them...and that cost can quickly turn the economics sour. There are a lot of successful products and companies that make a go of it without a patent.
That said, there is now an option for a provisional patent which is kind of a place holder for a one year period. They are easier to complete and file...still need an attornery...but it is cheaper. Within the year you need to either finish, or abandon and loose any future patent rights. This is only good, in my opinion, to give an inventor time to market his idea to a bigger company.

 

[keeney]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Some of the advice here is correct, some is bogus.

The provisional patent is a good way to get your date established and documented. Mostly you have to describe the invention in enough detail and specifically what part of the invention is the novel new part.

I think anybody can file for a patent. A lawyer is not *required*. However, writing your own patent is tricky from two points of view.

First, you have to get it past the patent office. They will likely reject your first few applications on various technicalities. These are usually easy enough to fix.

Then, they will reject your invention or portions of your claims as being too obvious or duplicating an invention that has already been disclosed. Sometimes they are right. It is amazing how much cool stuff has already been patented - literally millions of ideas!

Other times they are stretching things beyond what is reasonable to call an obvious anticipation of your invention. Usually they do this by citing combinations of previous inventions that add up to your invention. They typically just use keyword searches to come up with things in the first few rounds of rejection, but then after the first few trys, they get serious about finding a combination that duplicates your invention exactly. Then you basically have to convince them that your combination of things is new and novel and nobody would have ever thought of it before you told them about it.

You want to write your patent to describe how your invention is different from the prior art in the first place. This is what all the searching is about. You need to become an expert in all the previous patents related to what you are building. This is a lot, lot easier now that the Patent Office has everything online. In the evenings, their server is less busy and you can bore yourself to death all night reading all the other related patents you can find.

The second tricky part is that even if you get a patent issued, it might not protect all that much. If your patent is written too narrowly, then somebody can "design around it" and make the same thing with a slight variation. For example, say I patented the concept of a wheel that is exatly 31.415 inches in circumference (don't laugh, there are patents on computer disks being 3.5 inches in diameter). Somebody else could come back and just make their wheel 31.425 inches and they would not be infringing on my patent.

So instead, you want a patent on "a wheel" in general. Of course this is impossible to get issued because lots of people have patented all sorts of variations of wheels, so it will be obvious. You are stuck working between the exact very specific variation of the thing you invented which will always be unique, and trying to make your patent protect as much turf as possible.

A common strategy is to include claims that cover a range of things from the most specific, narrowest possible description of your invention to the most general, far-ranging description that would cover everything related. Since the claims are individually evaluated, some can be rejected while others are allowed. So then you take as much as you can get in one try without so many rounds of ammended applications and appeals.

Lots of other stupid mistakes in the language of your claims can leave the door open for design-around. For example, extra words that describe something for no reason.

Finally, you have to enforce the patent. Again, you will be tempted to hire a lawyer. If its worth serious money, its worth fighting over. If its a way to save $0.01 per decade on building a tractor, well not a lot of money in that to fight over to start with. Both sides will only want to spend what is commensurate with the profit involved. Your first step is a letter. Then, hire a lawyer to write a sterner letter, then sue, etc.

Technically, the www.uspto.gov website has all the instructions you will need. There are also books on the subject "patent it yourself".

A "real" patent lawyer from a reputable firm will cost you $200 to $500 per hour and will work in your best interest in writing the patent and getting it through the patent office (and eventually enforcing it if it comes to that). They are going to make enough money up front and in the open that they will not be tempted to try and rip you off.

Anybody else who purports to want to "help" you market your invention for free or at "no cost" - I would be very suspicious of.

Also, don't tell anybpdy about your invention until you file your provisional claim or otherwise get some solid documentaiton of the invention date. In the absence of other proof, the first to file the same idea will be awarded the patent. Proof that will hold up in court will be a notarized document that is signed by somebody who "read and understood" the patent.

Companies have those notebook signing procedures to try and establish the earliest possible invention date where there is the chance of duplication by other companies in highly competitive markets. However, worst case on establishing your date will be the date of your application that first describes your invention, no matter how long it takes to go through the patent process.

Expect the process to take two to three years if all goes well.

A good way to learn what a patent has in it is to read a bunch of them. Some are not as boring as they appear at first, especially if you pick some related to your area of interest. you have to go through the searching process anyway.

- Rick

 

[moeh1]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

With the provisional application, there is no free lunch. You don't have to write claims now, but you aren't allowed to add any information to the application downstream, so diligent work is still needed to fully plan for future claims. Bill amplified my earlier point. You currently have some intellectual property ( in the form of a proprietary idea). If you can protect that by some means ( like patent application or use-restricted NDA, etc.) and present that to someone who sees worth in it, you may be able to capitalize on your idea without bearing the full effort yourself.

 

[keeney]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

I agree, the provisional application can limit you in what you can claim later. But if its new stuff, it could always be made into a new application (with a new priority date, of course).

I think that you are best off having some kind of application filed before you do any shopping around. Without documented proof that you invented it before you go talk to somebody, its too easy for them to claim the invention was their idea or at best came mutually out of the meeting and they helped invent it.

There are plenty of stories of the little guys actually making it big on just the right idea, but nobody is going to make it happen unless you go out and develop it into a business yourself.

- Rick