What's invovled in getting a Patent???

[markls8]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Hi Eddie - Ok I just composed a discussion and it disappeared into cyberspace.

A brief recap of it - I'm a self-employed Industrial Designer and I've been involved in the development of several products from conception to introduction to market, and presently manufacture a few, some patented, some not. And, of course, I've been involved in some that did not make it as well. No one can recognize those at the outset.

However, you can increase the odds and I recommend the following book to anyone coming into my office looking to develop a product. It takes you through all the steps, and will help you asses the business value of a patent for your idea. It will also tell you how to assess your product for viability in a number of other areas.

It's "Bringing your Product to Market" by Don Debelak. You can order it through a book store by the ISBN 0-471-15750-3, or you can likely find it online. Anyone else out there thinking of marketing an idea - this is the book for you.

Best regards and good luck. - Brian.

 

[steveinmo]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie,

I don't know where you stand on your patent issue but I just ran across this and thought it might be something you could use.

Free Patents

Steve

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Mark,

Thanks for the book recomendation. I ordered it on Amazon.com

I looked on ebay, but everyone there seems to have gone crazy on prices. Amazon was cheaper than almost everyone, and when you consider shipping, it wasn't even close.


Steve,

I looked at the website, but it seems to be a link to a link to a link. I sort of gave up after a bit and don't know it there's anythign there or not. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif


Everyone else,

Thanks again for all your advice and help. As of right now I'm leaning towards not going the pantent route and maybe trying to sell the plans if there's a market for it.

Last week I bought the steel and items needed and spent the weekend working on it. I'm about half way done with it as of now. The plywood mockup told me what I needed to do in order for it to work, now I'm making the real thing. There's still a learning curve in the design, but it's such a simple thing that it's almost idiot proof.

I'm still looking arond for one that already exists and either I've just missed it, or nobody is selling them. I'm also afraid that it might turn out to be an old farmers tool that has been around for years, but is so common in some areas that everyone just makes their own. Why I can't find a picture of one is what bothers me.

Once I'm done with it and spend some time working it, I'll decide what to do then. If it works and has some merrit, I'm thinking of asking for volunteers to see if any of you can make it if I send you a set of plans for free. If so, than maybe I can sell the plans for a few bucks.

I will tell you all that it's an item that some of you have on your tractors, but most of us can't afford. This is a way of doing the same thing for less than ten percent the cost of buying one. Just not as fancy, but allot easier to build with a few tools. You will need a welder and a way to cut steel and drill a few very large holes, but otherwise, it's very straight forward.

Sorry for being so mysterious. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Eddie

 

[MadDog]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie:

I've been following this thread with real interest, although not much ability to help. I'm a lawyer, but I don't know much about patents.

However, if it is useful on a tractor, I'm interested in it and I do have welding and plasma cutting equipment, as well as annular cutters for my drill press that enable me to drill holes up to 1 1/2" (or more if I buy larger cutters). So when you're ready to disclose, I'll be ready to build.

I do have one thought about protecting your interest in the device. As others have observed, to be patentable, there must be something original that goes beyond the present "state of the art" and it can be expensive both to find out, and to defend a patent if one is issued, against others if they ignore and infringe on it.

Another possibility, which is workable even if what you have come up with is not a patentable invention (or you do not want to invest the $ in trying to patent it), is to copyright your plans and sell them. That would not prevent others from making the same device, if they could get access to your plans or build without them, but you would have a saleable commodity in the plans themselves and it is pretty easy (and inexpensive) to copyright something.

...just a thought. Hope this helps.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie, interesting conversation. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have one patent.

I have a patent pending on the building connector-bracket system.

I have another potential patent in the wings that we'll probably move on later this year to get it pending.

Here's what I've learned about patents.

1. All a patent does is give you a legal reason to engage in litigation. It says you can pursue legal remedy against another entity that is profiting from your intellectual property.

No government entity is going to litigate for you. You are the only one that can pursue legal remedy.

2. That said, we need to consider the patent a statement of position. If you go cheap, which you can, it suggests a position of financial weakness. And entity wanting to infringe upon your patent has only to feel they have the financial and legal expertise to defeat any attempt you might make to defend your patent.

But if you have enlisted not only a patent attorney but patent attorney of some reputation you have informed any potential infringer of the seriousness of your position.

But let's say you have a great idea. And you get it patented without much expense. You're infringed upon. You can't afford a legal remedy on your own. You will lose everything you ever saved to whomever takes up your cause.

3. It's something like ninety five percent of all patents never make any money for the inventor. In fact, most patents are not financially viable.

Some because they're a great idea but not practical to make or use.

And some because the public doesn't get it. Big business can be the public.

I have a good patent attorney. One of the ways a good patent attorney pays instead of costs is the language they use to describe the patent.

If I believed for a minute my patent pending was all he said it was my hat size would double overnight.

He also will define not only the patent completely. He'll define all the potential applications and forms that you've never considered or thought possible.

I believe in patents. But after the fiasco of the first one I swore I'd never go that route again. The difference is patent attornies and being older and wiser about the process.

Six to ten thousand dollars for a patent processed, win or lose, depending upon complexity. It can go a lot more than that if you have to look outside for expertise in making the working model etc.

You can search the USPTO office all on your own. Sometimes I'll go there and just surf patents for grins. It's amazing how many things have been patented and what they propose to do.

I did a ton of searching on my own on by building connector-bracket. But we still hired a Washington D. C. patent search firm to do the official patent search. They confirmed what I'd already found, nothing. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm always surprised when I do these searches about what's been allowed to be patented when you hear all these horror stories about the patent officer disallowing. I can show you some fence patents that are pure vanity patents. They wouldn't stand up in court for a minute. But unless someone wants to fight for them they'll never have to either.

It's a game with big winners and many losers. Maybe that's what makes it so interesting and fun.

my patent (Which is manufactured and for sale btw)

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Maddog,

Thanks for the interest and also to those of you sending me PM's offering to help. I should have it finished this week and start testing it if I don't get sidetracked on other things.

I feel sort of silly with it because it's such a simple thing, but the geometry and some simple math make it do things that I wouldn't have thought about. Fab is fairly straight forward with a few variables that can be improved on. I really need to get it dirty and put some preasure on it to see where if my weak points fail, or if my components hold up.

One limitation is gonna be HP in the smaller tractors. There's a breaking point where it needs a minimum amount to function.

The copyright idea is something that has allot of merit. If it's as useful as I exptect it to be, it will also be easily to copy and mass produce. I don't know how marketable it will be, but to hobiest it could be quite simple to dublicate to some degree.

I'm taking a ton of pictures of each piece, dimensions and assembly. Making something fairly simple even more straight forward. I'll also need to see how it works on other tractors and various models.

Thanks,
Eddie

 

[EddieWalker]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Harvey,

Thanks for helping out. I read through your patent and don't have a clue what it says. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Legal mumbo jumbo, but it's impressive to see that it exists.

I'm totally ignorant on the whole process and the more I learn, the less inclined I am to pursue it. It's more of a wall decoration in my case anyway.

My idea isnt' really very complicated, but it could be a poor mans solution to something very useful. Not as good as the original, but a huge cost savings that will do pretty much the same thing.

If I go the patent route, I feel I'd be forced to fight to protect it, and in the end, it's very likely that I wont succeed anyway. I like to choose my fights and if the odds are stacked against me, I'd rather find another way to get the result I'm after.

The copyright avenue has me thinking, but again, anybody can try to resell my plans and claim them as their own. If I document it on this website with some vague pictures and demonstrations, I'll at least have a record of when I built it.

Cost of the plans wouldn't be very much, enough to cover expenses and a buck or two sort of thing. We'll see. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

The math is also just not there. The materials are under $200 at most. It would take a long day to make it when it's all figured out. Two days easy for most home hobbyists with basic metal working skills.

Profits just for a cheap patent would requre selling a hundred units at least. Not something I really want to get into.

Once I have the plans figured out, I can print and mail them real easy. At a reasonable price, it still wouldn't take very many to turn a profit.

Than there's my nature to share things with friends for free. No profit in that, but I enjoy it allot more. Hopefully I can get a dozen guys interested to do R&D for me who want one and think it's a good idea. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Eddie

 

[GuglioLS]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Hi Eddie,

Count me in – I have a Milling / Lathe machine and can bore large holes.
I also have a pretty good selection of steel in my “inventory” (metal pile out back).
MIG & AC, Metal band saw, etc. If this is something useful that I could use around my property with one of my two tractors then I am all game for a mock up / trial version.
I would imagine by now you have sparked so much interest in your invention that you have got more offers than time.

Either way it will be good to know your final outcome and see your work.
I wish you the best in making the correct decision.

Larry G.

P.S. I know math and my brother is a mechanical engineer

 

[HGM]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie,
See if this link might help you..

I drew up a deer hanger that fits into the receiver hitch 6yrs ago to aid the lone hunter to process his game and load it into his truck with ease and no assistance. About a year ago, I saw that someone had recently produced a very similar product that now sells for $189. Talk about a sinking feeling, knowing that you had the idea, plans and ability to produce it but didnt, only to find out that you waited too long to capitalize.. I have heard from some(not certain of the leagal truth) that if I can prove that my plans existed before the product was patented, I would be entitled to a peice(however large ??).. I'm just not that kind of guy, they jumped on it and ran, they deserved it so I havent even looked into the posibility.. Now, I can still improve a good bit on their product but agin, just waiting for the right moment /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (can you say lazy?)..

Anyhow, maybe that link can help you get the ball rolling and give you an idea what production would cost. You may be able to patent the idea then sell the plans. If someone steels it, then you can choose whether to fight or not. In the meantime, you should be able to recoup your investment from plan sales.. Or, you can start a TBN network investment.. What do you think $20 per person interested to persue the patent, then you can pay royalties?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Just an idea..... Let us know what you decide, I agree with the rest of the guys, you peaked our curiosity...

 

[RonR]

Re: What\'s invovled in getting a Patent???

Eddie,

There's also the TBN gratitude factor. A long time ago, someone (forget who) posted plans to build a landscape rake. People have been referred to that many times. Others that we likely will never know about, saw it, built it, and comment to their friends "yeah, I got that from a good guy on TBN".

Imagine all the references to the "Walker Wingnut (or whatever you call it)"...............................

Whatever you do, have fun!

ron