What's up with my Solenoid?

[Lockport]

This is the 3rd one in 5 years. The tractor starts to behave as though there is water in the fuel. Get on a slope and she acts like she is sputtering. Get level and it seems to stop. She appears to almost want to stall at some point. It will do this for months until I sense I should open the hood and look when it happens and I see the solenoid cutting in and out. Finally she will quit and the tractor will not stop with the key off but I am required to hold the circuit closed.

I know that the under seat electrical tap for the work light option is on the same circuit because I put a waterproof cigarette lighter adaptor in the rear and had a switch from the fuse box at one point and it would have to be one to stop the tractor. I removed the switch from the circuit and left the cigarette lighter adaptor live with the key one. My wiring is all loomed, butt joints greased and tapped and I am sure it is not a short.

Today, I recall the sputtering happened year before last and sure enough, solenoid quit this aft.

Anyone have similar problems? :confused2:

 

[stupakmike]

My tractor would cut out and sputter when going up hill. Was the fuel filters needing replacement. I also had my tractor not wanting to turn off with the key. Problem was I pressure washed my BX24 must have got water in on the solenoid. Used a hair dryer to dry it out and worked fine after that. I did purchase another solenoid to have on hand if the problem arose again.

 

[Volfandt]

BX2230_Lockport, is your solenoid a 2 wire or 3 wire stop solenoid?
Dave

 

[Lockport]

Volfandt:
It is a 2 wire solenoid. Two to the plug, anyway, and then what looks like a single wire to the solenoid, itself.

 

[Volfandt]

Two wire solenoid means it is only energized for the short period of time (usually 10-15 secs) after the key is turned off or one of the safety switches trip. Other than that time frame there shouldn't be an voltage applied to it. The black wire should be ground and the white wire carries the temporary voltage to the solenoid from the timer relay.
internal sping pressure inside the solenoid is what keeps it in the run position and the temporary voltage is what draws it in to kill fuel flow in the injector pump.

With all that said your problem is a very perplexing one. It almost seems as if it's getting a transient voltage from somewhere. That 20 amp fuse that blows actually goes to the timer relay and it's the timer relay that switches 12v to the solenoid. To add alittle more confusion to it, the 20amp voltage is only for the safety switch sensing circuit, it's another 15 amp circuit that actually energizes the solenoid. (per the schematic in my WSM).
Theres only two ways I can see voltage getting to that solenoid in any case besides shutdown and thats either through the timer relay (posibly bad) or a wireing problem.
You say you see the solenoid pulling in/out?
I really don't think the springs are wearing out as I've got around 500 hrs on my BX23 which has the same 2 wire stop solenoid and haven't had a peep of trouble (knock on wood).
I've read of 1 or maybe 2 cases where the timer relay had to be changed out on a BX over the yrs so it's not a very common failure point. At least not on the 2 Kubota forums I visit frequently. So I'd suspect a wireing problem. Possibly a crossed wire or something not wired correctly. Course it could be a bad run of solenoids.
Good luck.
Dave

 

[Lockport]

Thanks for the in depth reply. I have seen the plunger pull in and out sporadically and obviously by electrical current and not spring failure. It would do it twice or thrice over a period of a couple seconds, causing the engine to sputter. Then it would cease. It is odd that I would get a solenoid and it is good for a lengthy time. One might think that if something was shorting out, why would a new solenoid resolve it for, say, 12-18 months, until the same symptoms reemerge, again? That being said, I have the Woods backhoe, which altered the seat safety switch functions, and I have a circuit wired to the factory, under seat, work light power taps that are the same circuit as the solenoid. Seemingly, however , these questions are overridden by the curiosity of a new solenoid immune for a period of time.

Sorry for the late reply. Was away.

 

[leonz]

If the quality of the metal in the magnet is of low electromagnet magnetic value or the springs are weaker in their construction -thinner wire guage its a big issue.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

Look for a loose wire or bad switch, as I think the interlock circuit must have continuity to work and when the circuit is broken (seat switch opens) that the timed relay kicks in and energizes the stop solenoid to kill engine.

David Kb7uns

 

[johnrex62]

Just a guess, but if you have a bad ground or sporadic short somewhere in the circuit, it could degrade the solenoid over time until it gets to the point where it starts to malfunction in association with the short.

 

[Motractr]

This is the 3rd one in 5 years. The tractor starts to behave as though there is water in the fuel. Get on a slope and she acts like she is sputtering. Get level and it seems to stop. She appears to almost want to stall at some point. It will do this for months until I sense I should open the hood and look when it happens and I see the solenoid cutting in and out. Finally she will quit and the tractor will not stop with the key off but I am required to hold the circuit closed.

I know that the under seat electrical tap for the work light option is on the same circuit because I put a waterproof cigarette lighter adaptor in the rear and had a switch from the fuse box at one point and it would have to be one to stop the tractor. I removed the switch from the circuit and left the cigarette lighter adaptor live with the key one. My wiring is all loomed, butt joints greased and tapped and I am sure it is not a short.

Today, I recall the sputtering happened year before last and sure enough, solenoid quit this aft.

Anyone have similar problems? :confused2:

I had sputtering problem because of scum/sludge in the fuel tank. The tractor would run fine on flat surfaces then on inclines the junk in the tank would inhibit fuel flow from the tank causing the tractor to sputter and sometimes stall all together. Just a thought.......

 

[redharley]

could you use a test light to check for voltage at seleniod when this happens? I'd lean more with what the last poster said about fuel. I have seen several BX's and kubota ZTR's with this fuel tank problem, only way to check is when it is doing it remove fuel line where it comes out of tank and check flow. You would be surprised what can be in there. pc's of plastic from when the tank was made,pc's of plastic out of your fuel can,or just dirt,leaf pc's, ect. good luck

 

[Keoke]

Hi, a solenoid is a magnetic coil with a hollow center used for mechanical work.
All coils flowing current when turned off will create a spike voltage that is usually many times higher then circuit voltage.
This spike (hi voltage) can very quickly burn an open in any coils winding.
If your solenoid is sitting there chattering on and off rapidly it is not going to last very long.
You need to find why the solenoid is chattering. The most common, but not the only, reason for this is a low voltage being applied across the solenoid windings.
This low voltage is usually caused by high resistance or overload on the plus side or a high resistance on the negative side.
The reason for the chatter is that when circuit is open (no load) voltage input to solenoid is high because of no load (voltmeter will show normal). However, when solenoid comes on and pulls current input voltage will drop and spring (now stronger then magnet) will take over opening the solenoid.
When solenoid goes open (off) voltage will rise again (no current flow) and solenoid will pull down again. This fluctuating hi/lo operating voltage is what the chattering is all about.
Old timers remembering chattering of old Ford relays will have a feel for this.
If one had a dime for every old Ford relay that was replaced when it chattered he would be a millionaire.
Hope all of this long winded stuff make sense and helps.

PS. Spiking voltage can be nullified by placing a high voltage diode across the solenoid with cathode end to coil B+. This will run spike voltage to gnd instead of coil windings.

cheers,

 

[Lockport]

I had sputtering problem because of scum/sludge in the fuel tank. The tractor would run fine on flat surfaces then on inclines the junk in the tank would inhibit fuel flow from the tank causing the tractor to sputter and sometimes stall all together. Just a thought.......

This was exactly my initial interpretation. It was about this time that I happened to open the hood and witness the chattering behaviour of the solenoid. Although the definition of sludge correlates with the symptoms, I will 1st address the solenoid and see if it still bogs down on the 'illside.

I am thinking that my problem might exist at the seat switch. I have the Woods BH6000 and the swivel seat modification. Ergo, there is no interruption of the engine when I arise from the seat. However, there still is some sort of sporadic activation of the switch I have witnessed at times and am not quite certain what is happening there. I will find a way to lock the circuit closed and see what happens.

Otherwise, Keoke's breakdown has many merits. I have modifications to my wiring and will start by tracing the wiring on that circuit. I have a marine grade cigarette lighter adaptor mounter in the rear fender and wired to the under seat, factory work light tap, which is the same circuit as the solenoid. At one point I tried to put a switch on that circuit at my modified and dust proof fuse box, only to find that unless the switch was on, I couldn't shut off the tractor!

Once again, thank you all for the suggestions. Sometimes I wonder where I would get my tractor answers if not for the great community here at Tractorbynet!