Whats wrong with tier 4

[grm61]

Aside from the added and unwanted complexity, I suspect that the life cycle cost of these machines will be much higher.

Funny how few people look at true cost as opposed to purchase price or in these days, monthly payments.

Kind of like a customer of mine with a high efficiency gas furnace. He spent maybe six thousand dollars on it in repairs lately. DC motors, boards, you name it! That thing sure is efficient on fuel usage but could give a **** about how much of his money it burns!

Maybe some people on here don't know that a "real" diesel doesn't even need power. If you can get it started, with an electric starter, or running it down hill, or even a crank, it will run without power. And this was one of the beautiful things about a diesel.

Now, fast forward to 2015. There could easily be a hundred electrical connections that have to be perfect for your "diesel" to run. That and possibly a few hundred thousand (maybe more?) transistor semiconductor junctions that have to be working properly (as well as computer code) for your tractor to run. You had better hope, that the manufacturer spend the required R&D time and money as well as not having cheaped out, and spent the money to make sure all of that stuff was of the highest quality and can withstand the widely varying extremes to which a tractor can be subjected to.

And if not, THAT is what can be WRONG with Tier 4! In my opinion.

How many cup holders come with tier 4? :laughing::drink:

 

[buickanddeere]

Simpler is more reliable .
The efficiency increase with emissions delete is from two major and one minor influence . Injecting fuel earlier does increase NOX but it improves combustion efficiency . Eliminating EGR improves combustion efficiency and improves thermal efficiency. Freeing up the exhaust usually has little effect except at max rpm and max HP levels.

 

[houstonscott]

Simpler is more reliable . The efficiency increase with emissions delete is from two major and one minor influence . Injecting fuel earlier does increase NOX but it improves combustion efficiency . Eliminating EGR improves combustion efficiency and improves thermal efficiency. Freeing up the exhaust usually has little effect except at max rpm and max HP levels.

Making the assumption that "simple more reliable" = "less or no electronics" is a big mistake. HS

 

[Dr_Zinj]

Tier 4 contains more parts than Tier 3. Assuming that the reliability rate for each part has not improved (a reasonable assumption), then the Tier 4 engines will fail more often than the Tier 3 ones.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Tier 4 contains more parts than Tier 3. Assuming that the reliability rate for each part has not improved (a reasonable assumption), then the Tier 4 engines will fail more often than the Tier 3 ones.

Tier 3 and tier 4 are not about the parts. They are the regulations or emissions standards that the manufacturers have to meet. The parts come in with how the different manufacturers meet those standards. And manufacturers are meeting those standards differently. Case in point how Mahindra got there and how Kubota is evolving.

 

[Bud Soda]

It's not that a problem will happen, it's when and where. Obama through sand in my face.

 

[s219]

It's not that a problem will happen, it's when and where. Obama through sand in my face.

The EPA tier system started in 1998 and Tier 4 started kicking in back in 2007. Better blame Clinton and Bush. Obama probably doesn't even know it's happening....

 

[jd4310man]

Im with Industrialtoys, The beauty of the diesel was its fuel efficiency, simple robust design, low maintenance, Long life. Anything that is MECHANICAL is dependable! Ya if your mechanical injection pump goes down, you all know how much that is to fix. Now add a common rail with electronic injectors, a control modal, sensors out the wazoo, and a really expensive muffler (DPF for short). And then tell me how much more money it will cost to keep the electronic beast running? I could live with electronic injection system, but all the emission crap has NOTHING to do with it making power! Look at it from a practical perspective and there is no reason to have emissions on a tractor, (or any other diesel for that matter). If im shelling out 20, 30 ,40, or more thousand for a tractor, my main concern is that its going to run when I need it, easy to maintain, and be relatively fuel efficient. Not how clean the exhaust is. Diesels up to this point fulfilled the requirements for a primary power source. Now we have to worry about the exhaust and how much pollution its making? Total government EPA BULLCRAP! I love the diesel engine, but now its ruined because this government wants more reasons to tax and fine US the PEOPLE! And the manufactures go right along with is because they can make more $$$ from it. End of rant.

 

[paulfun9]

Making the assumption that "simple more reliable" = "less or no electronics" is a big mistake. HS

I am not making an assumption! Experience has proven time and again that the more electronics they install in my cars/trucks and equipment has proven to = more break downs. Not only that but it has proven to force towing for some very simple things that one should be able to get home with the problem.

 

[paulfun9]

Making the assumption that "simple more reliable" = "less or no electronics" is a big mistake. HS

I am not making an assumption! Experience has proven time and again that the more electronics they install in my cars/trucks and equipment has proven to = more break downs. Not only that but it has proven to force towing for some very simple things that one should be able to get home with the problem.