Wheel motors on - starting to get anxious now...

[toy]

Yeah, I haven't driven mine for close to two months. No snow and the grass isn't growing yet. Buds are just starting on the bushes and trees, so it won't be long now.

We haven't had any snow this winter to amount to anything, haven't even had the snow blade on this year. My wife mowed the lawn for the first time this year a couple days ago. Took the doors off of my cab about a week ago so watch us have a big snow. I have a Border Collie and this winter he had my yard looking pitiful, thought he had killed all the grass running around but it has filled back in pretty good so far. I had a kids swimming pool that I was going to use [electrolisis] to remove rust from a few car parts but late one night I heard the awfullest racket outside and looked out my window and he was out infront of my house dragging the pool around in his mouth. Needless to say that the swimming pool was his toy for most of the winter but I enjoyed watching him play with it.

 

[KentT]

Congradulations. You did a good job of selecting the new motors. Sounds like the PT429 would be a good choice for your application.

Thanks, Bob. I'll really know more about how I've done in a few more days, once I've had a chance to work with it a while. I typically put 25-40 hours on the machine each visit. It still has under 500 hours on it, even with my friend's extensive use, so I'm hoping that I won't need to replace it for quite a while, if ever. If so, the 429 might be a candidate. Right now, the small bit of extra lift nor the 4HP jump would seem to make it worthwhile.

I've also thought a few times about a 1430, but they're almost too big for my use in the woods, plus my collection of T8 implements wouldn't fit it. If these wheel motors do as well as the preliminary reports, I think I'll be set for a while and will just keep adding to the collection of implements. Now that I have some good used wheel motors I'm thinking about how I could use them to convert my 46" Simplicity tiller to hydraulics, convert a 3-PT or build a post-hole digger, etc.

I've found a source for pulleys that would fit these 1" tapered shafts -- if I can go back and find the link in my favorites file....

 

[KentT]

Congratulations! I'll be interested to read how they perform, and whether (when?) tire traction becomes an issue.

How steep are the slopes that you are trying to cut brush on?

All the best,

Peter

Peter,

I was on my photo-journal site looking for something else, and happened to click on the this panoramic view that I had stitched (poorly) together. Pictures don't typically do a good job of portraying slope because they're two-dimensional, but scrolling this large version of the panoramic view does much better.

http://loonlanding.info/images/eli_june06/panorama_4.jpg

1. If you scroll from left to right, you can get a pretty good idea of the slopes I'm trying to deal with. The steepest slope I'll be trying to work on will be even further left, off the picture. Right now, I have to use a weed-trimmer on it. The left side of this view will essentially be my front yard... That's where the septic system will go.

2. In the background at the center of the screen, behind the "scarred" shadetrees I tried to save, is the slope above the driveway that I was mowing when my son made the movies. Compare that slope to the one on the left side that I described above.

3. The house will go where the pile of topsoil is toward the right side of the screen -- to the right of those shade trees. You can see how much flatter it is there, on top -- yet as I said, there's still 11'2" fall in 82'. The porch will come to about six feet away from the sweet gum tree in the foreground. I still haven't decided if I'll take that tree out or not -- as of now, I'm waiting to see how it does.

 

[ponytug]

Dear KentT,

Great photo! I agree that photos don't do it justice. I have trouble judging some of my own slopes sometimes. (Usually, I am standing off to one side, on foot, thinking, "Boy that doesn't look like 20 degrees, what were you worried about?")

I measured the slope from the scarred tree to the end of the chip pile and I get just over 20 degrees, assuming that they are in the same plane, equidistant from the camera. Your flatter section is still 7.8 degrees. (arcsin(11'2"/82')
If your steep area is off to one side, off camera, you might want to check where the oil pickup is on your engine, and drive accordingly, since the Kohlers have that 25 degree limit. (But you already knew that...)

We have trees coming up out of the deck on our place. Almost all of them have made it 35 years. It's the 180 year old ones hanging over the house that I wrestle with.

All the best,

Peter

 

[KentT]

Dear KentT,

Great photo! I agree that photos don't do it justice. I have trouble judging some of my own slopes sometimes. (Usually, I am standing off to one side, on foot, thinking, "Boy that doesn't look like 20 degrees, what were you worried about?")

I measured the slope from the scarred tree to the end of the chip pile and I get just over 20 degrees, assuming that they are in the same plane, equidistant from the camera. Your flatter section is still 7.8 degrees. (arcsin(11'2"/82')
If your steep area is off to one side, off camera, you might want to check where the oil pickup is on your engine, and drive accordingly, since the Kohlers have that 25 degree limit. (But you already knew that...)

We have trees coming up out of the deck on our place. Almost all of them have made it 35 years. It's the 180 year old ones hanging over the house that I wrestle with.

All the best,

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for taking the time to confirm my "guesstimates" -- I thought I was about to the 20 degree point on the areas I've had the PT on. All I knew was it really taxed the PT to climb out of there with a bucket of mulch. I mowed going around the slope as best I could, and it would still crab down the hill as it bounced.

Luckily the steeper area off-camera, above, is pretty small. The challenge is that theres no place at the bottom to turn around or maneuver -- theres a bank down there from where a dozer cut a trail when the ponds were built about 30 years ago. It will require that I either mow around the slope and climb out (most likely path), or back down as far as I can and climb out. You can see what I mean in this series of pics taken from about the same position as the panorama, and starts at the lower end of that mulch pile and goes farther left...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/65/177069514_750bf6512b_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/63/177069598_a7a35185a0_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/177069661_47fe98fae1_b.jpg

I don't think it gets any steeper than 25 degrees (yes I'm aware of the Kohler's limitations) and I think my own "personal pucker factor" will likely kick in before I run into an engine oiling problem.

If nothing else, I think this illustrates why: (1) I have my wheels reversed, and (2) I was looking for more wheel motor torque to climb out of there...

 

[MossRoad]

That first picture makes it pretty clear that that is STEEP. I've had mine on some side slopes that I kind of forgot about and turned up hill when the unit started to crab. YIKES that gave me the queazy stomach. I just felt that one more inch and I would be tipping downhill. I don't go across that slope anymore, and cannot climb up it with an implement running. I can climb it if I turn the implement off and lift it an inch off the ground to transfer the weight to the front wheels of the tractor. But I have a less steep slope to the side that I can make it up with ease, so I just mow down that slope.

I am really looking forward to your report.

 

[KentT]

Moss,

Yep, I really need a 425 slope mower, but they don't make them any more... if they ever had them in production. PT has a picture of one in one of the OLD, OLD articles on their links page.

From trying to use the old Kubota I had on these slopes, I filled the tires with WW fluid to help hold it down, and changed to thicker hydraulic oil (Amsoil 20W50) before I ever took it to Tennessee and tried to use it there. After my first trip, trying to maneuver these slopes, I reversed the wheels... it really does make a HUGE improvement in going around the slopes.

I realize that I'm likely cutting the expected life of the wheel motors in half by the extra weight of loaded tires and the extra stress of reversed wheels, but without those changes, it wouldn't be safe to use it in these conditions, IMO...

When I ordered these new wheel motors, I added the high-pressure seals which actually uses a metal cup retainer in a recess machined into the shafts. I wanted to do whatever I could to reduce the likelihood of blowing a seal from the reversed wheels and added weight. The last thing I need is to blow a seal on these slopes...

I too, am obviously looking forward to testing it. I wouldn't be surprised to be spinning all four tires trying to climb some of these places, especially if I'm trying to push the brush cutter up the hill. At least now, I should be able to shut the cutter off, lift it and climb out, as you describe. Before, I was afraid to even try going down there, afraid I couldn't get back out -- especially with hot, thin hydraulic oil....

 

[MossRoad]

I recall your posts on researching the wheel motors. You really did your homework. I am fortunate that there is nowhere on my property that I cannot get out of by taking a less steep route. But sometimes it is a couple hundred yards around VS 50 feet up that I would love to eliminate, but it isn't often enough to justify the cost of the wheel motor upgrade and for the most part, my unit is perfect for my needs when averaging out the chores. However, if PT is listening, it would be neat if they would offer a range of wheelmotors to fit the users needs.... I.E. torque VS top speed.

 

[RegL]

I recall your posts on researching the wheel motors. You really did your homework. I am fortunate that there is nowhere on my property that I cannot get out of by taking a less steep route. But sometimes it is a couple hundred yards around VS 50 feet up that I would love to eliminate, but it isn't often enough to justify the cost of the wheel motor upgrade and for the most part, my unit is perfect for my needs when averaging out the chores. However, if PT is listening, it would be neat if they would offer a range of wheelmotors to fit the users needs.... I.E. torque VS top speed.

Two speed motors would be nice. Does anyone make them? Actually, two speed with brakes would be even better.

 

[KentT]

However, if PT is listening, it would be neat if they would offer a range of wheelmotors to fit the users needs.... I.E. torque VS top speed.

Agree -- it would be SO easy for them to offer. Once they've settled on a line of wheel motors such as the White CE (new 425s), the difference in size AND cost between different displacement motors is VERY small. As I recall, they're typically about 1/2" longer when you move up to the next size. I doubt there would be much more than $100 difference in cost ($25 per motor) to PT to offer a "lower-geared" PT. I found the cost differences to be the basic design of the motor (gerotor vs geroler, etc). Now if you move up to the next series of motors (such as used on the 1430, it seems, and like JDBeach has on his) the price differences can be significant -- up to $200 per motor, plus the added costs of plumbing in case drains, etc. Simply varying the displacement of the same series motor isn't that expensive...