Wheel spacers or weights for slopes?

[number9L]

So, I've got a Kubota L3800, R1's set out all the way, filled and already have 3" spacers. Total rear width is 68" measured at outside of tread.

It does pretty good mowing on the side slopes (can't go up and down all the time, plus it causes ruts) but I need a little more stability. Slopes I mow now get up around 25* in a spot or two that I've just done a couple times side ways. It crab walks at times now.

I recently had some dozer work done and this spring I will have a metric crap ton of slope mowing to do.

I don't want to trade my tractor off for another one - my luck it would be less stable than this one if I did.

I've seen mention in "slope threads" of needed a squat ratio of 3.5 or better for good slope stability. (track width / axle centerline height)
With my 68" track width / 20.5" axle CL height I am at 3.31. Going with 5" spacers would get me to 3.51.

I am thinking of either adding wheel weights or maybe going to 5" spacers on each side. Which would be the better choice for added slope stability?

...

 

[skyhook]

I can't answer your question but, I would personally be afraid to mow that slope sideways,
maybe a smaller , wider lawn tractor for that sort of slope, I don't know.

 

[wolftree]

There are some places that just should not be mowed. Ask yourself if this is one of those places. Plant a line of trees and leave it alone.

 

[newbury]

Can you afford to put on duallies?

 

[Wolfy]

My back yard has some slope that I mow sideways. The wheel weights make the tractor pretty stable.

 

[Deere Dude]

Th cheapest would be to add another couple inches on each side, then try it out. You can always add a couple hundred pounds later on the rears with cast iron.

 

[Gary Fowler]

It does pretty good mowing on the side slopes (can't go up and down all the time, plus it causes ruts) but I need a little more stability. Slopes I mow now get up around 25* in a spot or two that I've just done a couple times side ways. It crab walks at times now.

Crabwalking or slipping of the tires down hill is a good sign that you are pretty close to maximum slope to mow sideways. 25 degrees is just a about halve way to the tipping point of the tractor while setting still but it doesn't take much of a bump to help one tip while moving even at 25 degrees.
Mow up and down slope as much as possible and don't try to mow when the grass is wet. If mowing side slope, go slower than normal speed till you are sure that there is no ruts or bumps that might cause a tipping situation.
I think you are plenty wide for mowing. Per your photo, the area around they boat close to the tree line looks to be the steepest part, so be careful mowing that. The bare ground in the back ground looks to be a fairly gentle slope that shouldn't be a problem mowing in any direction. But again, if the ground is soft and the grass wet, traction is going to be a problem regardless of what you do.
Regarding rutting: You really don't need to be mowing if the ground is really soft if that is causing rutting, just let it dry out a bit. I see you have R1 tires so you cant get any better traction than that.

If all else fails, resort to a good wide front mount mower with 4 WD like the Kubota's or Toro's to mow those hills.

 

[SPYDERLK]

So, I've got a Kubota L3800, R1's set out all the way, filled and already have 3" spacers. Total rear width is 68" measured at outside of tread.

It does pretty good mowing on the side slopes (can't go up and down all the time, plus it causes ruts) but I need a little more stability. Slopes I mow now get up around 25* in a spot or two that I've just done a couple times side ways. It crab walks at times now.

I recently had some dozer work done and this spring I will have a metric crap ton of slope mowing to do.

...

NICE! ... Since youre already ballasted I would look toward the extra width. You probably have plenty of traction with the R1s. But with a narrow track, transfer of weight to the downhill wheel can be extreme and contribute to rutting. Wider would limit this while providing more safety.
,,,,Also you might want to tailor your tire pressure and ballast quantity. I find fairly soft but with a high % fill to work well to limit body roll while providing good traction. I use about 90% fill and eyeball squat to adjust pressure. I guessing 12 or 15 psi. It will vary with specifics of tire size and tractor weight.
larry

 

[number9L]

I currently mow all the green side slope and it does fine. There is an area between the trees on the pond bank that you can see dirt - this is where backing up the hill to mow causes the tires to pull the grass lose from the dirt. The tree on the pond bank that is inline with the barn in the pic is the worst part. The ground swells out around the root ball to about 25* when crossing it. That's where it crabs the most.

All the fresh dirt was the dozer work and during the whole time I was stressing to my Dad and Uncle (running the dozer and excavator) that I needed a nice grade all the way around the hill. We moved a LOT of dirt over a week, day light til dark with a Cat D6T and the excavator to get it looking like it does now. There are still areas on the new dirt that are steeper than I'd like but that's as good a slope as they could get it and keep a good overall profile. I haven't been on it with the tractor yet as I am trying to get grass to grow before the first frost so I don't know yet how the tractor will do on it.

...

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yeah, AGs move little chunks of sod when theyre pulling appreciably. Probably a little worse in reverse. Working side to side should alleviate it if you can get the stability to manage it. ... What type of mower are you using? Have you considered getting a flail mower.? You can get those with a mount that allows running them offset to the side. We have one that shifts from center to side hydraulically. Could be handy in your situation.
,,,,A SCUT with belly mower would probably be ideal tho. I mow up to 30* with our BX1500. It has AGs but doesnt mark the ground due its comparatively light weight
larry

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Slopes are always steeper than they look in pics. That slope by the trees looks pretty steep, and I wouldn't want to mow that with a tractor.

I'd second Larry's suggestion of a SCUT with a belly mower, although I would add wheel spacers to get it as wide as possible.

Or, I'd go buy a belt-drive or hydro 48" walk-behind mower (Scag, Exmark, Toro, Ferris, etc.) and mow it safely while getting some exercise.

DON'T risk your life over this. Bad things happen when you roll a tractor, especially near a pond.

 

[number9L]

I'm using a LandPride finish deck 72". Just pulling it on its own wheels is enough to feel it tugging on the back of the tractor to the down side. I don't think I'd want a flail that I have to pick up off the ground.

Before I spend money on a second machine, I think I'd use that and trade my tractor to one that would be a little better on the slopes. Maybe an L4600?? The 3800 may do fine on the new areas, I'll wait and see but I am thinking it will be a no-go in some spots. Namely from where my truck is and around the back of the shop. Those are the steepest areas....and the very areas I don't need ruts forming

Anyway, I am leaning strongly at ordering a set of 5" spacers to try out. I am just wondering if wheel weights would add any noticeable level of stability on the slopes. Of so, I'd get some but I'd hate to spend that money and find they only help a little or even make it worse.

...

 

[dieselcrawler]

I made a set of spacers for my 3005, and installed them over the winter. Last summer, mowing my hillsides was a bit un-nerving. Not so much with an extra 9" of total width this summer. I also have fluid filled tires (all 4), and still think I'd like to make some cast cement weights to fit inside the now-deeper dished rear wheels. Not to mention, a belly pan/skid plate out of heavy steel to protect the under side as well as add ballast low in the center.

So to answer the OP, both! Wheel spacers and weights... the more the better... within reason. I think my extra 9" pushes the limits of the wheel bearings designed loads as much if not more than it should. But I'm willing to replace a few wheel bearings... easier than replacing my damaged head if I rolled.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I'm using a LandPride finish deck 72". Just pulling it on its own wheels is enough to feel it tugging on the back of the tractor to the down side. I don't think I'd want a flail that I have to pick up off the ground.

Before I spend money on a second machine, I think I'd use that and trade my tractor to one that would be a little better on the slopes. Maybe an L4600?? The 3800 may do fine on the new areas, I'll wait and see but I am thinking it will be a no-go in some spots. Namely from where my truck is and around the back of the shop. Those are the steepest areas....and the very areas I don't need ruts forming

Anyway, I am leaning strongly at ordering a set of 5" spacers to try out. I am just wondering if wheel weights would add any noticeable level of stability on the slopes. Of so, I'd get some but I'd hate to spend that money and find they only help a little or even make it worse.

...

Ah-h I see the problem. That trailing deck adds no ground contact weight to the tractor. The unsuspended weight starves the tractor of the traction needed to control the additive burden. Thats why it crabs. -- I was wondering at that at only 25*... Yes. Add wheel weights too.

PS. I note from your profile that you have a FEL and a 3pt Quick Hitch. The QH will be a detriment if the mower motion is controlled from it because it puts the trailed weight further back, adding leverage to its effect. I assume the FEL is off when mowing?
larry

 

[Gem99ultra]

So, I've got a Kubota L3800, R1's set out all the way, filled and already have 3" spacers. Total rear width is 68" measured at outside of tread.

It does pretty good mowing on the side slopes (can't go up and down all the time, plus it causes ruts) but I need a little more stability. Slopes I mow now get up around 25* in a spot or two that I've just done a couple times side ways. It crab walks at times now.

I recently had some dozer work done and this spring I will have a metric crap ton of slope mowing to do.

I don't want to trade my tractor off for another one - my luck it would be less stable than this one if I did.

I've seen mention in "slope threads" of needed a squat ratio of 3.5 or better for good slope stability. (track width / axle centerline height)
With my 68" track width / 20.5" axle CL height I am at 3.31. Going with 5" spacers would get me to 3.51.

I am thinking of either adding wheel weights or maybe going to 5" spacers on each side. Which would be the better choice for added slope stability?

...

Interestingly, I have two ponds that look almost exactly like yours - and with the same dilemma. One difference though is that I have no room at the bottom of the slopes to turn around or even turn period due to trees. I've added 2" wheel spacers and loaded tires on my L3800. Can't even mow up and down not to even mention sideways. No go. Not that I've have the nerve to even contemplate mowing sideways!

I have a small section that I can mow up and down with my Husqvarna garden tractor/mower if it's really dry. So far the string trimmer has been my only option - and that's a ton of work.

It seems that the only solution is a slope mower, which I can't afford nor would I trade my Kubota L3800 for one. Adding a BX or a ZTR could be in the budget though. I'll be watching your thread for quick and/or cheap solutions. Thanks for posting.

 

[Texasmark]

Get a fishing weight and a piece of string of about a foot long or so. Hang it mid section of the tractor at the highest point, your head if that's it or the top center of your rops, and go out and get on your slopes. Your body needs to be centered for an accurate reading. Watch where the weight hangs when you are on the slope and draw an imaginary line from it straight out to your rear tires. That's your center of gravity and shows you where is is respect to your supporting structure...the tires. If the weight "line extension" is at-inside your rears and you don't hit any bumps fast causing the tractor to bounce you are good to go. A bounce will upset the whole thing but you can control that.

Agree on width being the solution. It's all about keeping the CG inside the supporting structure. The idea about duals if feasible wouldn't be a bad idea at all. You'd get width and traction. If you don't have a spacer maybe you have a local machine shop that will fabricate one for you.

Just because your body thinks you are going over doesn't mean you are. I mow the back of my pond dams all the time and using the weight reference have not had a problem. Now on comfort, that's another story. Flip up the arm rests and sit on the high side of the seat. Bring along a cushion if you need one. And yes as you get to the end and come back the other way you get on the other side of the seat.

Obviously if you have a FEL the bucket needs to be as close to the ground as is feasible and having something in it helps too.

Mark

 

[Blade Breaker]

This fishing weight is a great idea. I have just been watching the front tires and making sure my but was not over them. I just calculated the squat ratio mentioned in the first post and mine is not even close to a 3.5 maybe about 3.0 at best. Going to check it tonight for fun. I think I will hang the string on the top hook of the quick hitch and set it right at the axle line or slightly above and drive the waterway to see how it looks. I have been getting a bit to comfortable in driving slopes/ditches probably time to check.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Get a fishing weight and a piece of string of about a foot long or so. Hang it mid section of the tractor at the highest point, your head if that's it or the top center of your rops, and go out and get on your slopes. Your body needs to be centered for an accurate reading. Watch where the weight hangs when you are on the slope and draw an imaginary line from it straight out to your rear tires. That's your center of gravity and shows you where is is respect to your supporting structure...the tires. If the weight "line extension" is at-inside your rears and you don't hit any bumps fast causing the tractor to bounce you are good to go. A bounce will upset the whole thing but you can control that.

Agree on width being the solution. It's all about keeping the CG inside the supporting structure. The idea about duals if feasible wouldn't be a bad idea at all. You'd get width and traction. If you don't have a spacer maybe you have a local machine shop that will fabricate one for you.

Just because your body thinks you are going over doesn't mean you are. I mow the back of my pond dams all the time and using the weight reference have not had a problem. Now on comfort, that's another story. Flip up the arm rests and sit on the high side of the seat. Bring along a cushion if you need one. And yes as you get to the end and come back the other way you get on the other side of the seat.

Obviously if you have a FEL the bucket needs to be as close to the ground as is feasible and having something in it helps too.

Mark

I dont see how youre relating highest point to center of gravity.

 

[Blade Breaker]

I dont see how youre relating highest point to center of gravity.

Your right but I know the CG is below my but somewhere. Would be great to know exactly but I assume it is about 14" or so above the center of the rear axle on my tractor??

If you figure the highest point you should be way to the safe side.

 

[number9L]

Yes I do have a FEL - and no, it is not on the tractor when I mow - tried that once, NO WAY does it help. It reduces the level of slope I can cross drastically. Up and down, it's a must - sideways, no way.

I do have a QH and it stays on the tractor all the time, so yea it is adding to the leverage that the rotary cutter or finish mower act on the tractor.

I did kinda do the fishing line thing once a long time ago but used a motorcycle tie-down hung from the ROPS. I don't think this is very accurate (I'd say it's close and worth being able to see) as the area the tractor is sitting on gets crossed every time I mow with no problem or pucker factor. It's the area just to the uphill side in the pic from the rear that is the area that rolls up to about 25*. There is a tree just out of the edge of the picture. I've only drove across that next tractor width between where it is now and the tree twice.



...