When not to 'Mind Your Business':

herdfan · Jul 1, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Doug

Perhaps one of your neighbors that you do know knows this lady well enough to pass along your concerns - even if they would present them as their own concern.
I would think the note in the mailbox would make her paranoid and feel like somebody is out there stalking her. If you would bring up this issue with her yourself, I think you need to develop a little repoir with her/her family first and broach the topic in person.
She may truly not understand the possible danger or think that she can hold onto the kid if anything would happen, so, personally, I wouldn't feel right just sitting by with my fingers crossed.
Of course this is just my opinion
Eric

txdon · Jul 1, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/588.html

hockeyhead · Jul 2, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

First off the fact that you do not know your neighbor says what? and are, afraid, unsure in aproaching her why? conflict?
retribution? what? I have young children and I know everybody for 5 miles plus, and everybody knows me. I make sure of that. Now I'd be over there saying, Hi! this is not your best idea, you need a break, to think about this, Then I would go into a long presentation about 8 month olds bouncing off the front /side of a lawn /garden tractor and the odds of one of the four limbs being mangled with the mowing deck. That sounds real bad to me we need a better start.

hockeyhead · Jul 2, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

I asked the wife, and she states that it would depend on the child's disposition and the terrain of the ground. she does admit that a better solution would be a playpen on the porch and a monitor with her on the lawn mower. Even thou she could barely, if at all hear the monitor she could see the child on each pass with the mower. She also states that if it was my son , no way too squirmy always wants down, but my second daughter was so calm that she would bring her with her. I don't know still think it is a bad idea.

ByronBob · Jul 2, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Wow I'm impressed with the responses on this thread. It's a touchy subject which we have lots of opinions on. Regardless of everyone's comments it's just a matter of lifestyle which were all entitled to do differently. The bigger point is how does the child ride on the tractor safely vs not being on it at all. There just seems to be safer ways than what the mom is doing now.

Could you imagine the shock if she read this thread and saw the comments were stirring up /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But DAP what ever happened with this? Did you drop a note yet?? Were dying to know.

cowboydoc · Jul 2, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

most people did stuff when they were young that they would not even think of allowing their youngins to do.


I guess I would disagree with that. I have friends that have their 5 year olds riding dirt bikes, skate boarding, playing soccer- most dangerous sport in the country, riding bikes, swimming in ponds, skiing, mountain climbing, you name it. Most parents tend to gravitate their kids towards what they did as kids, at least when they're young.

Alot of people are shocked at what my girls do with horses and cattle. I don't consider a horse anymore dangerous than riding a bike on a street. They also drive pickups, tractors, ATV's etc. There is risk in everything that we do. The only thing I did as a kid that I don't let my kids do is ride in the car without seatbelts. Everything else I hope they do experience.

MossRoad · Jul 2, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Tough call. We have a neighbor that does the same thing. If you are that concerned, send them an anonymous note through the mail(don't put it in there yourself) and wash your hands of it. That's about all you can do. The woman is probably not aware of how dangerous it is. We all did stupid things until we knew better. Some of us know better and still do it. At least she will be informed and then it is her decision. As Gatorboy said, she isn't beating the child or starving him. Just being stupid isn't a crime. But once you know better... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

MossRoad · Jul 3, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Most parents tend to gravitate their kids towards what they did as kids, at least when they're young.


EEEEEE!!!! Not me. And I ain't talking about my teenage years either. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I rode on the floor of a Volkswagon van between the front seats for many years. I knew how to drive by a very early age because I watched that stick, foot, clutch gas coordination at eye level for years. I remember sitting in the rear of a Plymouth station wagon eating apples and watching my sisters lift the carpet only to see the asphalt sailing by through the rotted out floor panels. Then they'd drop their apple cores and we'd watch them bounce down the highway behind us. One of them stuck her foot down there and slid it along the pavement /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif. I remember playing with fire, gasoline, lighter fluid and spray paint. I also remember fireworks and Estes model rocket engines with fuses that you had to light(no electronic ingnitions there). I remember my dad handing me a machette at the age of 8 and having me help clear brush in our yard. And I remember operating a power drain snake(a big walk behind unit) and wrapping my dad's arm up in the snake when it kinked. He had to go to the hospital. I remember playing with sparklers, railroad flares and gunpowder, too. And my friends and I tried the famous Mary Poppins off the roof with umbrellas(it doesn't work). I had fun and never got seriosly injured. Should I let my kids do the same things? Of course not. I make them sit in the back with seat belts on. I make them wear bike helmets. I make them learn to swim. I don't let them run with scissors and sharp sticks either. And I lock up the gasoline, matches, gunpowder and machette.

My point is, parents with bad safety habits raise kids with bad safety habits. The only reason I started wearing seat belts in cars is because I got in a wreck and got hurt. My sister and brother in law got in a wreck in the same model car and didn't get hurt because they were wearing seat belts. I had my bell rung in more ways than one. I still have lapses, but I find my kids correcting me if I drive fast, follow too closely, don't pay attention to the road, play with fire or walk through the house with scissors or a steak knife. I've instilled some concern for safety in them and am proud of it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

DannyD · Jul 3, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Just don't get caught -- it's a federal offense for using a mailbox for anything other than mail. It must have a stamp on it.

Wondered when someone was going to bring that up.

From someone that mows their neighbors lawn FOR FUN, mow the lawn for her. Ask her if it would help her out for you to do it, and just mow it. My neighbor has kids (able to do the lawn) but who wont. She is not able to purchase a mower, and I get more seat time. Besides that, she is a nice lady, fun to talk to, and I am the only one in the neighbor hood that is not afraid of what thier wife would think about them talking ot a single woman. I used to do the other neighbors, till thier kids moved back in with the travel trailer, now they do it. I will actually be glad when they move, they stink at cutting grass and they take advantage of their mom.

Make sure that if you DO cut the grass for her, the child and her are safe when you do........someone mentioned 126 for a tennis ball, that was surprising.

In this situation, the child should have on ear protection, sun screen, sunglasses at least. I have to say, it is not a good thing, and offering to help out would be the neighborly, kind thing to do................and at best you would not have hurt feelings. If it does not work, I would notify authorities........I have lost a child, the hurt never goes away!

herdfan · Jul 3, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Maybe give her a printout of this thread?

caddison · Jul 5, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

DAP,

I guess it is a moral call on your part and yours alone. I take the twins on the tractor for a ride but never while operating an implement behind it. Things can happen so fast and I just can't see taking a chance that would endanger the life of a child, but then I see kids riding standing up in the seat of a pickup and I want to cringe.

There are a lot of things you could do.....do what you feel is right.

mundamanu · Jul 5, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

 In Europe 1-3 kids die from enviormental pollution. I was reading this today. 

Source, please.

DAP · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Update:

Now depending on my motiviations in life, I will interact with people whom I see doing incredibly brilliant things and also incredibly stupid things where I may have some skin in the game. Perhaps somewhat selfish, but I think not.

In this situation, I don't really have any obligation. This woman has a family, a husband, a home, etc. Whoever nominated me to become her guide to living her life as a quality consultant has erred.

I now take this stand for a couple of reasons. One, this family and mine are completely estranged, unknowns. I have no desire to befriend everyone who lives proximal to my homestead. That's not to say we live a hermit's life - we have many interactions with some of our neighbors (the 2 legged, 2 footed type).

Two, I have no real justification for what would be what I interpret, no matter how it is delivered, as an intrusion on that family's privacy. If she were to pop up over at my place one day and inform me that I should use a ventilator when I spray some sundries in my garage I would be appalled. This may not be the perfect analogy, but the spirit is basically the same.

Now I understand the opposing argument, the one that says people don't always do what's best for themselves. And to a degree, I agree - and that can lead to justifying some interventions. I just don't see this as one of them yet.

It's too easy to pick up a paper and continually read what other sensless, careless or ignorant people do with, to or at something or someone.

Now, if this person were to ask me what they thought about mowing with their children on their lap (as I have asked you actually), I would not hesitate to tell here what my opinion is. For the record, I think it's an unneccesary risk by the way.

So, hopefully they will not have an incident.

Naturally, this thread morphed into a parenting discussion. Times have changed since I was a child. Some people consider their childhoods to be 'transferable' to their own youngsters - by default. I happen to disagree with this. It's a different world - its much smaller, far more complicated and a much more dangerous one. Any denying that is buffoonery.

It's a tough job for parents, balancing between being an overprotectionist or a hazard to your own.

cowboydoc · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Some people consider their childhoods to be 'transferable' to their own youngsters - by default. I happen to disagree with this. It's a different world - its much smaller, far more complicated and a much more dangerous one. Any denying that is buffoonery.


I guess there are alot of buffoons then. The landscape, values, quality and way of life has not changed at all since I was a kid where I grew up. The world may have changed but there are still parts of the world that are still honest, hardworking, and good places to raise kids the old way. How you choose to accpet those challenges and prepare your children for the world is another matter altogether. I guess if being a buffoon means I am raising honest, hardworking, self-sufficient kids like my grandparents raised me then somebody better call Webster for a new definition. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Trev · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

From your first post:

( I just want her to stop taking that infant on her lap when she mows.)

And from your most recent:

( In this situation, I don't really have any obligation...)

... and ...

( I have no real justification...)

Sounds like you are wrestling with what most decent people wrestle with. It's kind of a complex blend of "What do I WANT to do", "What am I EXPECTED to do", "What would be the RIGHT THING to do", "What would I wish that someone else would do for ME in the same situation."

A classic example would be that you are a guy walking down the road and you come upon a two-year-old who's lost and crying for her mommy.

What most of us would probably *want* to do is befriend her, perhaps scoop her up, comfort her, ask her some questions, and figure out how to get her back to mommy.

Most of us are probably unsure (these days) as to what is *expected* of us at this point. We'll be accused of child molestation if we even look at her!

We probably would mostly agree on the *right thing* to do.. help the poor kid and her probably frantic mother, and then let the chips fall where they may. But we have to weigh the cost to us personally.. which is where it gets troubling.

I'm almost certain we'd mostly agree on what we would want others to do *for us* if we were in that same boat.

I'm not going to draw any profound conclusions (I can hear the sigh of relief /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) but it seems to me this basic scenario is played out in multiple big and small ways most every day of our lives.

What do you guys think? Maybe I've been out in the sun too long. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Doc, you are a fortunate person to be able to live the way you do. And I know not all of it is fortune, you made most of it that way by the choices you have made in your life. I commend you! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I don't think anyone is calling you a buffoon. What I read was that anyone that can't recognize the world is changing would be foolish.

You mentioned that the landscape, values, quality and way of life has not changed at all since you were a kid where you grew up. Glad that is the case in some places. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif It isn't that way here. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif The whole place has changed... the landscape, values quality and way of life that I grew up with are not there anymore. The place where my grandmother grew up, "Way out in the country" is now 2 miles inside the city limits and is the hottest crime area in town. The place where I grew up, right on the edge of town, is now 1 mile inside the city limits and the property values are declining. It was a rural suburb. Now it is urban. The people that live there have a different set of values than I do and what I want my children to have.

Things change, we discover new things and learn that some things we did as a kid were dangerous and now we have the opportunity to let our kids do the same things, but in a safer manner, with better safety equipment, and more knowledge. Nothing wrong with letting them experience life in as safe a way as possible. They can't live in a glass bubble. They have to be able to ride a horse. They have to fall off once in a while. But you wouldn't let them learn in an unsafe environment as the pioneers did, would ya? As I mentioned once before a few years ago in a discussion on changing technology:

 "Some people want tried and true because it is a good design and they know it works well. However, that does not mean it will always be the best way to do something. People used to store food in lead cans because their parents and grandparents did. We now know that it causes brain damage. Now I'm not saying that owning a tractor that looks and operates like the same old tractor that your grandparents had will cause brain damage. But some day, sometime, somewhere a better design will come along and then grandpas tractor will be pulling floats in parades." 

I still think that is true. My dad tried to give me a better life than he had(and he certainly acheived that goal), but he did some increadibly dangerouse things with me that I would never do with my kids, or anybody else's kids, for that matter. He learned those bad safety habits from his dad. I don't know why I snapped the cycle, but I'm glad I'm not passing most of those habits on to my kids. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DAP · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Moss .. you are way too kind.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MossRoad · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Yeah, but I come across as an obnoxious know-it-all way too often. I wish I could talk to most of you in person, as I'm not a bad guy and my facial expressions tell more of the story than I can get across in print. Writing is such an art and I'm afraid I'll always be an amateur. That's why I gave up a career in English Literature for a career in industrial electronics, which turned into a career in computers. I have no problems conveying my exact thoughts to a computer. Especially when I POUND ON THE KEYBOARD!!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I really don't know how my children have turned out so well. Must be the wife's influence countering mine. They get exposed to both sides of the force. The yin and the yang. The wife and I really are opposites.

To keep this on subject... I came home today and saw my neighbor riding her lawn tractor mowing the lawn with her 5 year old on her lap. They do this all the time. I have told her during a conversation regarding the little guy's love of tractors that it is extremely dangerous, but she just blew it off. At least I told her. I will feel awful for them if something happens, but I did all that I could. It is her child and her choice. She is aware of the dangers, but chooses to do what she does. Whatchagonnado! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

YanmarFever · Jul 6, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

I consider myself to be a good tractor & mower operator,
12 years ago I flipped my riding mower over with a little boy on it.
I was on FLAT GROUND ! I hit a rolling basketball and the mower climbed over it shifting our weight & over it went
The little boy started climbing on me & I lost control, it was by the grace of God that the deck landed between us still spinning. To think that we could of been seriously hurt or killed
makes me think twice about taking any passengers on anything now.
Yes I would offer to watch the baby,or mow her lawn.
If she hurts the child next time she mows in an accident you will kick yourself for not saying anything
thats what good neighbors are for. <><

DAP · Jul 7, 2004

Re: When not to \'Mind Your Business\':

Ernie ... twas fortunate that those events didn't get ugly. However, and with a complete understanding of your viewpoint, you are making one flawed assumption. That being that my saying something will change this individual's behavior. In fact, my odds say it won't.

At some point, we all have to realize that by default, we are responsible for ourselves. There is no police force out there that preempts or precludes any of us from making serious mistakes.