When to cut?

[BryanM]

I know weve talked this to death but never cut hay before, When do you decide to cut hay! Forecast calls for some kind of shower everyday only their slight chances like 30%. Do you go ahead and cut or do you wait until lowwer than that. I have seen a few people cutting hay but it also rained on it. What to do? my zip is 43416, take a look and tell me what you would do. thanks Bryan

 

[ddivinia]

I am wrapping up my first time haying my place today. The first thing I did was keep my county agent in the loop to help advise me when the grass was ready.

How many acres?

How big a cutter?

What kind of bales?

I am doing round bales so, as long as I get them baled up, I am fine. Squares are a little different story.

Are you using one tractor or do you have somebody raking while you bale?

Good luck,

D.

 

[chetlenox]

Bryan,

Darin is right, it's kindof a complicated question. Depends on the type of grass you are growing, the bale type, the equipment you use, and whole lot of other things.

The other part of the problem is that the ideal weather for cutting and baling is a very regional thing. I just took a look at your weather forecast and it doesn't look great, a chance of showers essentially all the way through the week (20-40%, depending on the day). Drying conditions are also just ranging from fair to poor through the week as well, mostly due to the expected cloudcover and relatively high humidity. This is a great site (recently pointed out to me from somebody on this forum, I can't remember who) for getting an Ag-oriented forecast:

http://wwwagwx.ca.uky.edu/cgi-bin/ukawc.pl

Problem is, that could be as good as it gets for you (in Ohio) but not me (in Texas). I know looking at that weather forecast, I would hold off, but I'm comparing your weather forecast to my typical conditions (which are much drier, obviously). I'm calibrated to the following for my area:

20% or lower - Looks good, probably will cut if grass is ready.
30% - Getting worried, paying attention to if the number is up from 20 or down from 40 (ie, the trend), may hold off.
40% or great - Too risky, very likely hold off.

Here is my basic methodology (and remember, I'm relatively new to this as well, so take my advice with a grain of salt): Since I grow Coastal Bermuda, I wait until 28 days after the last cut (or April 1st, if it's the first cutting of the year). Then I look at the weather and see if I have an opening. The "size" of the opening that I need varies a lot (I've learned). If it's early in the year, we've been getting steady rains (grass and ground have relatively high moisture content) and the drying weather is going to be muggy or cloudy, I might need 4-5 days of curing time. If it's later in the year, the grass and ground are drier, and the weather is going to be hot and dry, the stuff cures in 1-2 days. I do my best to cut as closely to the 28th day as I can, as I've seen the protein content in my hay samples decline rapidly the farther I get away from the 28 day ideal. To ballpark it for you, I start out at about 13% protein content at 28 days and lose one percentage of protein every 7 days, the longer I wait. That could be very different from you though, depending on what type of grass or legume you grow.

So basically, as you wait for your opening, the urgency level begins to grow (because your grass is losing quality). Eventually those 20-30% chances of rain that kept you from cutting before don't look so bad, and you just say "what the heck" and go for it. I mean, you eventually have to cut the stuff. I'm 4 for 5 on getting my cuttings up without getting rained on, which the locals who have done this for 30 years tell me is about par-for-the-course.

Chet.

 

[mark.r]

It's a valid question, worth discussion and some words of wisdom from some of the more experience individuals here. I'll tell you what I say this weekend which was interesting . . .

Two guys that I have bought hay from, one this season and one last season.

The first one, we bought some freshly cut horse quality rounds from a couple weeks ok (cut on Memorial weekend). He cut the remainder of that same field this past Wednesday. I was curious why he hadn't cut the whole thing on Memorial Day weekend but now I know, he was keeping the remaind for squares. Also peculiar is that he cut the hay for rounds with a JD Moco and he was cutting the same field for squares with NH haybine. Anyone no why he wouldn't use the same cutter? Only thing I can think of is that his discbine may have been down. At any rate, come Saturday he hadn't got it baled and the skies let loose for about 2 hours. This morning on my way into the office I notice that he started round baling it yesterday. My take from that was that the idea of horse quality squares when out the window with the rain. Now looking back, I do remember the weather man calling for Saturday evening showers. He does have a tedder and why he would not use it between last Thurs. and Sat. to get that hay up is beyond me . . . if he even needed it. Our humidity was high last week but it was also pushing a 100 degrees mid week and 90's end of week.

Secondly, on my way to a birthday party I passed the guy we bought rounds from last year. He had his JD4440 hitched up to his square baler and kicker wagon ready roll. Once again that rain on Sat. came through and must have caught them by surprised or they were willing to risk it. Either way on my way back from the party. He had his round baler on the 4440 now and I ASSume had realized that he now had a field full of cow quality windrows . . .

So to take the original posters question one step further, if you are baling squares and you DO get rained on, are you done for as far as having horse quality hay. Or is there any chance in saving it by running the tedder over it an additional time and letting it dry and re-raking or are going to simply loose too much of the good stuff by doing that. Is it better to do that and offer it up as mulch hay to a contractor for grass seed covering or find a cow farmer to sell it to?

Good questions, indeed.

 

[WTA]

Protein levels are the highest on Bermuda and alfalfa usually between 28 and 30 days. Mines all irrigated and lately we've been really working our pump hard too but even with the lack of rain it's still coming out best at 28 days or so on the plant tissue analysis.
I don't know anything about other grasses but generally when a grass crop starts going to seed is the time to cut. After it's all gone to seed the nutritional value really goes down hill.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

It's a valid question, worth discussion and some words of wisdom from some of the more experience individuals here. I'll tell you what I say this weekend which was interesting . . .

Two guys that I have bought hay from, one this season and one last season.

The first one, we bought some freshly cut horse quality rounds from a couple weeks ok (cut on Memorial weekend). He cut the remainder of that same field this past Wednesday. I was curious why he hadn't cut the whole thing on Memorial Day weekend but now I know, he was keeping the remaind for squares. Also peculiar is that he cut the hay for rounds with a JD Moco and he was cutting the same field for squares with NH haybine. Anyone no why he wouldn't use the same cutter? Only thing I can think of is that his discbine may have been down. At any rate, come Saturday he hadn't got it baled and the skies let loose for about 2 hours. This morning on my way into the office I notice that he started round baling it yesterday. My take from that was that the idea of horse quality squares when out the window with the rain. Now looking back, I do remember the weather man calling for Saturday evening showers. He does have a tedder and why he would not use it between last Thurs. and Sat. to get that hay up is beyond me . . . if he even needed it. Our humidity was high last week but it was also pushing a 100 degrees mid week and 90's end of week.

Secondly, on my way to a birthday party I passed the guy we bought rounds from last year. He had his JD4440 hitched up to his square baler and kicker wagon ready roll. Once again that rain on Sat. came through and must have caught them by surprised or they were willing to risk it. Either way on my way back from the party. He had his round baler on the 4440 now and I ASSume had realized that he now had a field full of cow quality windrows . . .

So to take the original posters question one step further, if you are baling squares and you DO get rained on, are you done for as far as having horse quality hay. Or is there any chance in saving it by running the tedder over it an additional time and letting it dry and re-raking or are going to simply loose too much of the good stuff by doing that. Is it better to do that and offer it up as mulch hay to a contractor for grass seed covering or find a cow farmer to sell it to?

Good questions, indeed.

Once the hay gets rained on after it has started drying down it is done for as "horse" hay. Even running a tedder on it will not prevent the hay from dusting after it is baled. Your customers who buy it will not want dusty hay for their horses.

Also, high humidity is not good for drying hay. You need low humidity to get hay to dry fast. So those days where it was 90-100 degrees didn't do much but make everyone sweat with the humidity so high.

And as for why some guys are cutting when rain is forcasted, well, because we have no choice this year. We gamble that a 30% chance is going to miss us. Some times we win, others we lose. But the way this year is looking if we don't gamble the hay is going to lose its quality from standing too long. Plus, the longer it stands the less second cutting there will be (if we ever get a chance for a second cutting that is).

What I do is I look for 4 good days here in WNY. Right now I am just looking for 3 good days and a possible fourth. If the humidity is low, sky is clear and there is a nice breeze I will cut for a three day windrow. If the humidity is high, sky is cloudy and there is a heavy dew each morning I need a 4 day window.

A tedder is not a miracle machine either, it helps to expose the hay for drying but you still need the elements to work with you. I am hoping to get back to my first cutting later this week but right now the ground is so wet that I am nervous about tearing up some of my fields if I go on them too soon.

 

[mark.r]

Once the hay gets rained on after it has started drying down it is done for as "horse" hay. Even running a tedder on it will not prevent the hay from dusting after it is baled. Your customers who buy it will not want dusty hay for their horses.

Also, high humidity is not good for drying hay. You need low humidity to get hay to dry fast. So those days where it was 90-100 degrees didn't do much but make everyone sweat with the humidity so high.

And as for why some guys are cutting when rain is forcasted, well, because we have no choice this year. We gamble that a 30% chance is going to miss us. Some times we win, others we lose. But the way this year is looking if we don't gamble the hay is going to lose its quality from standing too long. Plus, the longer it stands the less second cutting there will be (if we ever get a chance for a second cutting that is).

What I do is I look for 4 good days here in WNY. Right now I am just looking for 3 good days and a possible fourth. If the humidity is low, sky is clear and there is a nice breeze I will cut for a three day windrow. If the humidity is high, sky is cloudy and there is a heavy dew each morning I need a 4 day window.

A tedder is not a miracle machine either, it helps to expose the hay for drying but you still need the elements to work with you. I am hoping to get back to my first cutting later this week but right now the ground is so wet that I am nervous about tearing up some of my fields if I go on them too soon.

Thanks Robert. You did get some of your first cutting done correct?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Thanks Robert. You did get some of your first cutting done correct?

I have 10 acres finished out of 100

 

[mark.r]

I have 10 acres finished out of 100

Well it's a start. Hopefully you get some four day stints in there. We haven't too many but a few down this way. Suppose to storm again today so no baling going on today either.

 

[chetlenox]

Everybody from the north keeps talking about not being able to get the hay cut because of the rain... I sure wish we had some of the stuff down here! We haven't gotten decent rain in at least a month here in North Texas, and my Bermuda is feeling the effects.

Weatherman says some chance on Wednesday, I've definitely got my fingers crossed.

Chet.

 

[BryanM]

I just got home from work and on the way home I shave seen partial fields cut. Back to me though, I only have aprox 3 to 4 acres to cut. It is a pasture mix with alfalfa, clover and some orchard grass.

Being new to this I am assuming alfalfa and clover contains alot of moisture and needs 4 days to dry. I am cutting with a 1209 haybine. I tell ya I am glad I am not doing this for a living cause this type of patience would drive me crazy!

 

[BryanM]

Hay guys! get it! LOL!! My dad just called me and asked if I had started cutting yet. He also said he had talked to a couple farmers at the coffee shop and they said it doesnt hurt the hay to be cut and rained on! You just cant bale when wet? Main I am confused! If I cut it and it rains on it does it hurt it? The coffee club crew also said they rake when it was a little damp evening or mourning because it was easier on the leaves, meaning that it wont knock the leaves off. What do you think? I have no doubt that is the way these guys did it, but maybe times and ways have changed. I dont know! They also said this it wont dry if it isnt cut.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

We hit a 10 day window of opportunity here just about the time my 1st cutting was "ripe". With less than 25 acres, it wasn't a chore to get it cut, raked, baled, and in the barn. (Someone elses barn!) We had the WORST year I can ever remember last summer, as far as hayin' is concerned. So, this year I'm seeing anything and everything getting baled. Folks aren't waiting until August to see if we get another drought. If you can wrap a string around it, somebody is baling it.

It WAS hot and humid here last week. The weather guessers are saying 60's at night, mid-70's through the day, LOW humidity, 5 to 10 mph winds, and not even the first sign of a cloud for the next 6 days. I sure wish I had more standing hay. That is IDEAL weather!

30 miles north has been inundated with rain for the last several months. We're actually getting dry here.

 

[mark.r]

Everybody from the north keeps talking about not being able to get the hay cut because of the rain... I sure wish we had some of the stuff down here! We haven't gotten decent rain in at least a month here in North Texas, and my Bermuda is feeling the effects.

Weatherman says some chance on Wednesday, I've definitely got my fingers crossed.

Chet.

We got hammered again to day for about 3 hrs.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Hay guys! get it! LOL!! My dad just called me and asked if I had started cutting yet. He also said he had talked to a couple farmers at the coffee shop and they said it doesnt hurt the hay to be cut and rained on! You just cant bale when wet? Main I am confused! If I cut it and it rains on it does it hurt it? The coffee club crew also said they rake when it was a little damp evening or mourning because it was easier on the leaves, meaning that it wont knock the leaves off. What do you think? I have no doubt that is the way these guys did it, but maybe times and ways have changed. I dont know! They also said this it wont dry if it isnt cut.

Where are you located? In dry areas it is common to rake with a dew on it to keep the leaves on. Up here in WNY we do not have to worry quite as much about leaf loss on Alfalfa and clover till the third day.

As for rain on hay, if the hay gets rained on the day it is cut and is still fresh you will usually be ok if you get the tedder on it immediately. However, once the hay starts drying down (I don't remember the numbers) and it gets wet it will dust and then it is cow hay. Maybe the guys at the coffee house are old dairy farmers or cattle ranchers where they didn't worry as much about high quality "horse" hay. Grass cow hay is generally cheaper then horse hay and the market is very limited in some areas as most of the dairy farms have their own hay equipment so they don't usually have to buy hay.

One thing I will tell you is that a little foreign moisture won't hurt hay that has dried down. If you get a light sprinkle it is no different then a heavy dew. The time you need to worry is when you get a soaking rain. Either way, be honest with your customers if your hay gets rained on. Tell them what happened, when and what you did to dry it down. Then if they still buy it they know ahead of time that it may dust.

Also, old farmers can be a great source of information for your local area but choose which ones you listen to and which ones you ignore. What market your aiming for might be completely different from what they are use to and their "advice" may not be very good if you are going for a high quality horse hay market and they are giving you advice for baling junk hay for heifers. I learned a lot of what I know from my ex's father who was a lifetime dairy farmer. He knew what needed to be done to make quality horse or dairy hay. Anything that didn't meet those requirements would get fed to the heifers. I took what he taught me, and like you asked questions from others who have a lot more experience in the market I was in. I merged all their advice and tried different things to see what works and didn't work for my area. And I still look to learn more and more every year as well as try different things each year to see how they work in my area. Texas haying is a completly different game then haying in New York so I have to be careful just what type of advice I try to use up here (baling at night is not very useful up here).

Good luck on your hay and please feel free to ask more questions. There are a lot of people here who know what they are talking about and you can learn a lot from them. Also, Google is your friend. Do some searches and you will find a lot of information on haying from universities and farmers.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

We got hammered again to day for about 3 hrs.

It rained here for 10 minutes rather hard now it is sunny again , at least I don't have to water the garden yet

 

[mark.r]

Robert, what is the "actual" definition of dusting?

 

[BryanM]

You make some great points Robert. I m located in nw ohio. And got some more advice from some other farmers, they are saying wait and told me a few reasons why which make good sense to me.

I am sure I will have a few more questions as we go. Thanks for the help!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Robert, what is the "actual" definition of dusting?

The hay starts breaking down creating a dust. Some people confuse the dust with mold but the dust doesn't have the musky smell or discoloration generally associated with mold. All hay will dust eventually as it gets older and breaksdown, being rained on after it starts drying makes it start to break down faster.

Is this what you were wanting to know?

 

[flusher]

I know weve talked this to death but never cut hay before, When do you decide to cut hay! Forecast calls for some kind of shower everyday only their slight chances like 30%. Do you go ahead and cut or do you wait until lowwer than that. I have seen a few people cutting hay but it also rained on it. What to do? my zip is 43416, take a look and tell me what you would do. thanks Bryan

We have the opposite problem here in the North Sacramento Valley--no measurable rainfall since 28 Feb. Temp is rising into the high 90s. RH is 10-15%. Winds blowing 10-20mph. Stuff is drying out fast. Big grass fires East and West of my place last week.

Three weeks ago one neighbor got a good cutting of oats on his 200 acres. Probably could be horse food, but most of it went to the feed lots.

Checked with another neighbor today. He ran his Hesston swather over his 20 acres of irrigated alfalfa last Saturday. It's green, but the stand was thin and he's got yellow star thistle mixed in. He'll let the windrows dry for a few days, combine them 2 for 1 and bale. Only good for cattle and goat feed now. Offered my newly acquired MF-124 two-twine baler for his use. Need to check that baby out.