When to use four wheel drive?

[ovrszd]

Greggyy,

I think your question misses a key 3rd choice -

3. that part of tbn members - perceive a far different user mix than TBN has.

10 years ago there were far fewer scut owners on TBN - and today there are significantly more. But its not just the tractor size that makes the difference - but the reason they have the size they do. Scut owners are far more likely to have small acreage and use their units far differently than the more hobby or mid sized farm needs of prior TBN posters. That difference in land location and type is substantially varied from traditional hobby farm land. While I have a total of about 4 acres contiguous - I don't have more than 150 feet I can go on relatively flat land - everything else is slopes and sidehills and most are steep pitches. I have another 1 acre of lawn 2 miles away that is flat - but I certainly don't transport my scut there each week as it isn't worth the effort - and that is just lawn that gets cut with an aging lawn tractor.

So during normal seasons - my scut is either mowing or digging or log moving or hauling items on primarily hills where 4wd is absolutely needed. And in winter I'm plowing or snow removing on a large long steep concrete driveway and sidewalks - again in 4wd.

But I think there are a quantity of tbn posters who can't imagine that there are very many like me - and they still think in terms of 15 to 60 acres of land with much of it flat or near flat and a tractor in the mid to large compact sizing ranges.

As another example - my scut is certainly not awd - however I'm in 4wd (front wheel assist if you require the phrase) - but neither I or anyone else could tell on lawn or dirt or gravel - that my steering is altered in any way from 2wd. Only on dry concrete or dry blacktop can you "sense" a different sound in 4wd to 2wd - and in no way does it alter the turning ease and turning circle. Maybe larger compact tractors and older equipment is stiffer steering in 4wd compared to 2wd - but I've never ridden on any that are even though I know my neighbor's jd x728 lawn tractor is stiffer in 4wd.

My point greggyy, is that I think older or larger tractor owners assume alot about smaller tractor owners and believe those small unit owners have less awareness in their opinions - or maybe less skill in their decisions. My point is I think it is just the opposite too often - that larger tractor owners or land owners maybe don't recognize how much things have changed in tractor ownership in the last 6 to 8 years. If I had 30 acres and a Massey 1700 series unit instead of 4 acres and a Massey GC1715 - I'd have more flat land and easy rolling land to use 2wd for. I might have a lot of tilling to do or pasture land maintenance or rebuilding. The number of scut tractors and small frame compact tractors (like Kubota's B series etc.) are outselling percentage wise each year these last 6 or so years especially - and its because of their land locations and land sizes and because they are often in areas once were rolling farm land that now is subdivided for homes with 1 to several acres with far less flat land percentages and more hills and challenging landscapes and woods issues.

I live very close to many farms who would rarely need 4wd - but I live in areas right next to me that ALL need 4wd.

JMHO

I challenge you to a test. With your scut in 2wd, turn the steering one direction to full turn, drive forward for 2 or 3 complete circles so you can see and mark the inside diameter of the circle, stop and mark it. Now engage 4wd and make 2 or 3 more complete circles. Can you stay in the same tracks?

If your turning circle grows that's called "push". Your back tires are out running the fronts and pushing the front out of the circle.

If the circle remains the same diameter with no sign of push the front ratio is different enough to compensate for the different ground distance being covered. If you have this condition you will have severe "pull" when going straight.

I don't know of any SCUT, CUT or Utility class FWA tractor that doesn't display one of these "push" "pull" conditions. Thus, they are all binding and scuffing at some point.

Very high end AG class FWA tractors have the technology to vary the ratio dependent on degree of turn measured at the axis of the front axle knuckles. This allows them to make short turns at the end of the field without disengaging FWA.

 

[ruffdog]

I challenge you to a test. With your scut in 2wd, turn the steering one direction to full turn, drive forward for 2 or 3 complete circles so you can see and mark the inside diameter of the circle, stop and mark it. Now engage 4wd and make 2 or 3 more complete circles. Can you stay in the same tracks?

If your turning circle grows that's called "push". Your back tires are out running the fronts and pushing the front out of the circle.

If the circle remains the same diameter with no sign of push the front ratio is different enough to compensate for the different ground distance being covered. If you have this condition you will have severe "pull" when going straight.

I don't know of any SCUT, CUT or Utility class FWA tractor that doesn't display one of these "push" "pull" conditions. Thus, they are all binding and scuffing at some point.

Very high end AG class FWA tractors have the technology to vary the ratio dependent on degree of turn measured at the axis of the front axle knuckles. This allows them to make short turns at the end of the field without disengaging FWA.

I know my Boomer TC33D PUSHED to the point of just wanting to go straight. On real slick snow pack or ice, it steered much better in 2wd. In deep snow, of course 4x4 helped get through snow, but normally, I always kept it in 2wd unless needed. Most of the time I had just a rear blade on and no loader too.

 

[CincyFlyer]

I use mine when I need it; otherwise I can do nasty things to the turf.

 

[AxleHub]

I challenge you to a test. With your scut in 2wd, turn the steering one direction to full turn, drive forward for 2 or 3 complete circles so you can see and mark the inside diameter of the circle, stop and mark it. Now engage 4wd and make 2 or 3 more complete circles. Can you stay in the same tracks?

If your turning circle grows that's called "push". Your back tires are out running the fronts and pushing the front out of the circle.

If the circle remains the same diameter with no sign of push the front ratio is different enough to compensate for the different ground distance being covered. If you have this condition you will have severe "pull" when going straight.

I don't know of any SCUT, CUT or Utility class FWA tractor that doesn't display one of these "push" "pull" conditions. Thus, they are all binding and scuffing at some point.

Very high end AG class FWA tractors have the technology to vary the ratio dependent on degree of turn measured at the axis of the front axle knuckles. This allows them to make short turns at the end of the field without disengaging FWA.

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

I'll just answer one thing at a time.

It's very easy to tell us what the result is. Would take five minutes or less.

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

I didn't setup anything. Simply described a logistical scenario for you to verify that your SCUT turns the same, 2wd versus 4wd.

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

Yes, if u turn same circle you are pulling. And when you drive straight in 4wd you will bind/scuff dramatically. I don't have to prove this. You will honestly report your findings and confirm it.

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

Steering stiffness is your term. The subject is binding/scuffing. Nothing assumed about the result. You are going to report definite results.

 

[ovrszd]

Ovrszd,

I can't tell you what the result would be. . But it seems you tried to set up a challenge that "heads you're right" and "tails I'm wrong" because if I turn in the same size circle then "I'm pulling". So how do you prove I'm pulling? You seemed to assume correctness without anyway of verifying it.

Even more interesting is that I stated 4wd or 2wd didn't show a difference in how hard it was to steer on my tractor . . whereas many claim steering is much stiffer in 4wd drive than 2wd.

The subject statement was about stiffness and difficulty steering. . . while your challenge is about something completely different and with an assumed result that can't be verified.

Finally, just how many scuts have you driven in the last 4 model years to make such a bold statement. . 10 orv15 ?

I've had a FWA SCUT for 15 years. Two models.

Nothing bold about my statement at all. Simple logistics.

Are you claiming your SCUT is logistically advanced enough to prevent binding/scuffing? You suggested that earlier.

 

[goeduck]

In regards to older 2WD tractors, back in the day many, if not most, tractors did NOT have FEL loaders on them, not having a loader gave them much better traction than a 2WD with loader. Those 2WD loaders really only filled a gap until 4WD with loader utility/compacts became the norm. It is rare to see a new tractor with 2WD and FEL. If I have a heavy load on my 3 pt non loader 2 WD tractor, I can go most anywhere a 4 WD can.