where are the coyotes?

drpepper · Aug 4, 2002

I have followed this thread with great interest. The orginal question was "Where have all the coyotes gone?" They are just outside my door, that's where. Hardly a night goes by that we don't hear several packs yipping to each other. When the price on pelts was high, they thinned out considerably. Now, they are thick as thieves again. I have mixed emotions on coyotes. Coyotes kill and eat my wife's barn cats. Proven fact. They also eat the cottontails. I love that. The cottontails mutilate the trees I plant. I have to put tinfoil or other wrap around them. I would dare say I have way too many rabbits. Nature is trying to combat this with increasing the coyote population. I don't go out of my way to pop a coyote. If they are around the barn, they are fair game. I have far more problems with dogs. I live too close to a town. Thru years of experience, I have learned to just pop the dog and bury it. Ask no questions. People don't want to hear that "Fluffy" is chasing your horses. We have government trappers in this country that trap the coyotes. I can't see that they are making much of a dent in the population. Maybe they haven't worked my area for awhile. Yes, I have seen coyotes take down a beautiful quarterhorse filly that my daughter loved. Coyotes will kill young livestock. My feeling is "do what you have to do." I don't actively hunt coyotes, but I don't avoid the issue either.

beenthere · Aug 4, 2002

That is interesting, and reminds me of an experience the winter before last. When I butcher my deer, I usually end up with the neck and rib cage intact, with almost all the meat cut off for sausage. I then hang the rib cage in a tree for the birds to pick at throughout the winter. By the end of the winter they have it picked pretty clean.

The winter before last, I kept finding the rib cage on the ground in the snow. Coyote tracks were all around and I would hang it back up, using a #9 wire hooked through the rib cage and the other end over a tree limb. Once I went out to hang it back up, and found a good amount of fresh blood around the area. I surmised (didn't see it) that the coyote jumped to grab the rib cage and got hooked on the #9 wire. I trailed it but didn't find anything, including any amount of blood in the snow.

Your treble hook idea interests me. I may have to try that next winter. I would like to get a good pelt from a coyote. What size treble hook?

cp1969 · Aug 4, 2002

RanchMan, I don't believe I'll be reading any of your comments from here on if you can't discuss things with civility. Nowhere in this thread did I call you or anyone else in this thread a liar. All I said was that my experience was different from yours.

As I said, you believe what you want, and so will I.

DAP · Aug 4, 2002

...I have far more problems with dogs. I live too close to a town. Thru years of experience, I have learned to just pop the dog and bury it. Ask no questions. People don't want to hear that "Fluffy" is chasing your horses....

Um .... somehow I don't think feral dogs are named "Fluffy". God help you if one of your townspersons discovers their K9 buried on your acreage.

When I see a stray dog, I check it for ID and do the leg work to reunite it with it's owners. If not, and it continues to be a nusiance, I call in the puppy police. That's what we all pay 'em for.

Scott_in_WVA · Aug 4, 2002

Pilgrim that is a good story...Thanks for sharing./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

cowboydoc · Aug 4, 2002

Well said Ranchman. It's nice to know that your word and honor still mean something to some people in this world.

rdln · Aug 4, 2002

I'll take a stab (pun intended) at it and say a 6/0, about the size used for salmon snagging. About 2.5 inches in diameter.

drpepper · Aug 5, 2002

DAP, I guess things are differant out here. We have no "puppy police." In the Panhandle, you are expected to take care of a lot of problems on your own. In the beginning (before my hair was gray) I followed dogs home and asked people to please keep them off my place. Guess what, they always deny that their dog ever leaves their property. All that happened was hard feelings. I had one particular dog that was a huge problem. He was at the point of snarling and barring his teeth when I tried to run him off. I talked to the Sheriff about it and he said "You've got a .22 don't you?" That is really the best solution for me. There is no dog worth a broke leg on a $3500 horse. Yes, I have a heart and I really hate to do it. If people would only contain their animals. Oh, by the way, I live in a county that has 22,000 people last census. 19,000 of them live in one town, and I stay as far away from it as possible. I guess we don't have all the services and as structured lifestyle as the people in other parts of the country. I kinda like it this way.

RanchMan · Aug 5, 2002

cp1969-

I'm sorry you interpret the sarcasm of my last post as being "uncivil." I think the "lack of civility" gauntlet was thrown down LONG BEFORE I ever jumped in. Just guess I'm fed up with what I see as attacks on those who I believe are honest individuals trying to educate others as to their witnessing coyote attacks.

I guess the one major difference I see between my "brand" of sarcasm and others is that I use facts to support my arguments in addition to the negative tone where I have seen only negative tone and lack of logical argument flow as posted by others. (including yourself.) Is negative tone required to make a logical point? Not at all. But, as I stated earlier, **I** didn't let "that genie out of the bottle." Although I didn't start it, I sure ain’t gonna sit down and take it either. As Popeye says, "I's had all I can stands, I can't stands no more!"

Since you asked for it, I'll illustrate this using your own words as much as possible and try to limit my own since you are unable/unwilling to deal with sarcasm (although I believe you have dished out plenty yourself). Not sure why, as it seems EdKing, Cowboydoc, & others have been attacked far more viciously, but fair enough, I'll put on the "kid gloves" so you don't "feel threatened" and "exit stage left." Hopefully it will meet with your approval since you now have stated your willingness to withdraw from the discussion unless I “play nice.”

Nowhere in this thread did I call you or anyone else in this thread a liar. All I said was that my experience was different from yours.

You stated:
I'm not saying your experience isn't true--all I'm saying is that it is definitely not the way I have found coyotes to behave in my neck of the woods. 

As I said, about the only conclusion that will be reached in this discussion is that coyotes' behavior apparently varies considerably with geographic location.

I'm willing to believe that coyote behavior could very well be different where you live, but don't try to tell me that's how they are around here, because they aren't. (inflection added)

/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif Ok, so it appears that you are saying those here may not be liars, but your "local" coyotes could never conduct themselves in any such way. On the surface, this appears to support your argument that you "never called anyone here a liar." But let's step back and look at the other comments you have posted for a second.

Comments from earlier posts of yours:
Why do you want to 'cut their numbers as much as possible?' What do they hurt? - implied doubt as to there being any "real" issue.

I wonder if all these livestock killings were witnessed or if tracks were found by a carcass--then I have to wonder how many people can tell a coyote track from a dog track. - implied ignorance of observers and implied doubt as to actual viewing of events

You witnessed it or your neighbor told you he did? - implication of subterfuge of another poster on this thread

Not once did I find a person who claimed he'd actually seen it, except from persons who were in my opinion blowhards or known liars - implication that those who report seeing such attacks are liars (general stereotype - e.g. posts from others on this board were not specifically excluded from this comment).

And you expect me to disregard that body of evidence and accept on someone's internet say-so that coyotes' behavior as an entire group is to routinely prey on livestock? Sorry--ain't gonna happen. - denial of testimony from other posts on this thread, implication of deceit of others on this thread - e.g. calling them liars

To me, at least, all of these statements reflect a common thread of: (1) doubt that any real issue exists, and (2) deceit/subterfuge from others who posted their eyewitness accounts of attacks within this thread. (e.g. they are liars)

So, which is it? /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif Seems like an oxymoron to me. Either coyotes, under the right circumstance, can/will attack livestock or they will not. Either those who have posted their eyewitness accounts are telling the truth and yes, even your locally "nice" coyotes, under the right circumstances, will attack livestock/deer, OR they will not and all those who have posted said experiences are guilty of deceit/lies.

I've already stated my position, and don't feel I've been "wishy-washy" in my beliefs/support of the others who have posted. Since your posts seem to go "both ways", settle up and state it clearly/concisely - what do you believe? Liars or honest individuals? Pick a side and leave the politics out of "riding the fence." If you're willing to do that, I'll quit “picking on you.”

EdKing · Aug 5, 2002

Your treble hook idea interests me. I may have to try that next winter. I would like to get a good pelt from a coyote. What size treble hook? 

I wouldn't recomend the treble hook idea. A leghold trap or a box set is a much safer alternative. A treble hook in the gut is pretty much a death sentence to the animal that eats it, and unless caught and dispatched quickly, a slow and painful death. Traps can be indiscriminant as to what they catch, and I'd hate to hook a neighbors dog who was just eating some carrion. With a leghold or box trap you can release the animal with little to no injury if you inadvertantly catch the wrong thing. Also, if you plan on trapping, make sure you check your traps both morning and evening, also to prevent harm if you catch the wrong animal.