Wushaw, I'm so old that I was changing oil and filters on cars in my Dad's service station when the "spin on" oil filters were invented to replace the cartridge type. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif In fact, we used to sell an adapter kit to change some cars, mostly Ford products, from the cartridge to a spin on. Of course, early on, there weren't all the special wrenches we have today, so I've driven screwdrivers through filters, used big channel locks and about everything else at one time or another. When I had to move back to town nearly 3 years ago, I threw one filter wrench in the trash (it was sorry I wouldn't have even given to anyone) and I sold 5 in a garage sale. Now they keep coming out with new stuff, so I'm not sure, but I think I've used just about every type made. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif They all work under the right circumstances, and then I'm sure that none of them work under other circumstances. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif