Where is the most value for your dollar JD or Kub

[Anonymous Poster]

It seems to me John Deere are overpriced compared to Kubota,my reason for thinking this.(I am talking compact tractors).
I have a big John Deere Dealer that sells tractors and JD dozers. Down the road is a Kubota dealership that has probably 20 new Kubotas out front.
Well last summer I was at my JD dealer and he had an Avenger tractor he wanted me to look at,he had ordered 1 to see if he could stir any intrest.I said why do you want to sell these? He told me most most people went to the Kubota dealership,they shopped for price and not name.
Now that makes me wonder is the Kubota dealership able to get the tractor equivalent of the John Deere from the factory cheaper than the John Dealer dealership can from the John Deere factory,if so why?I am assuming the Kubota is cheaper priced from the factory,if not why couldn't my dealership lower the price on the John Deere instead of having to bring in a cheaper priced tractor and sell it to try and be competitive? If the Kubota is as good as the John Deere how come the consumer can get the Kubota cheaper than the John Deere?
Buy the way the Avenger tractor did not sell,he only had the one and I have not seen anymore,its a shame since it was a nice looking tractor.
Like I said the dealer told me that a lot of people shopped for the cheaper price not name,well that cannot be completely true because Kubota has a good name and a good price in my neck of the woods.
If you were a dealer what would you do in a situation like this?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I said Avenger tractor,it may have been a Millenium (it was Korean)

 

[TerryinMD]

Farm Boy,

Sounds like the JD dealer primarily sells larger pieces of equipment and has not tried to "sell" CUTs (compact utility tractors). What I have been lead to understand is that the price of a particular piece of equipment is dependent upon the volume of sales by the dealer. So, if a dealer sells a lot of CUTs, he will get a larger discount on what he pays for each unit. This savings can then be passed along to the consumer. Looks like your local JD dealer would rather sell to the consumer of construction and larger farm equipment.

In my area, JD, Kubota, and NH tractors of equal size and capability sold for nearly the same price within a few hundred dollars. So, the purchase decision is made by the comfort level with the dealer. When you're spending $15k, a few hundred dollars is not much of a difference.

Terry

 

[cowboydoc]

I definitely think that the area and dealers have alot to do with it. Like Terry said and it's the same thing here, JD doesn't go for anymore than a comparable kubota. But we've got a JD dealer on every block and the nearest kubota dealer to me now is 40 miles away as the one down the road went out of business. When I was buying mine I was actually going to buy a kubota but the deere was cheaper. I couldn't get the kubota dealer to move one bit on his price. JD dealer did all he could to make the deal.

 

[rf33]

Gotta go with the doc on this one, it seems that the dealers have enough profit margin on any of these tractors to make one cheaper that the other. Just depends on the area I guess. Also resale value seems to vary widely from one area to another for a given brand, so it might be wise to do a little research along these lines too.

 

[Darren]

When I was checking prices I stopped a dealer that carries JD compacts, the complete NH line and the Kubota compacts. There was a small Kubota there that looked like it was used. It had been sitting so long the paint had faded and rust had set in. The dealer was absolutely not going to deal on that tractor even though it had been superceeded by a newer model years before.

I got a quote on an L3710 and then went to a smaller dealer that only handled Kubotas. Both would have had to order the tractor. The smaller dealer had the best price. I think it depends on the dealer and their situation. Some of the dealers I know that have high profile locations get some sort of consideration from JD. They may get a better interest rate if they're on JD's floor plan.

The other difference between JD and Kubota is the economic issues. Since the dollar is so strong and the Japanese economy is in the basement, it may be cheaper to import Kubotas than build JDs.

 

[frank_f15]

in this area i could not get the jd. dealer to move on price. he was about $1500 above kub.+ he wante more for r4"s and mid pto was an option.

 

[rancar]

Farmboy,

<font color=orange>Down the road is a Kubota dealership that has probably 20 new Kubotas out front.</font color=orange>

This is an awful lot of inventory to have sitting out front, especially if they're not spoken for. If they're lower in price than John Deere, they should be rolling off the lot like tollhouse cookies.

Eighteen months ago I attended an auction. There was a Kubota (forgot the model # but it was comparable in size to the John Deere 4700) with FEL, no other attachments. It was in real good shape with 325 hours on it. It sold for $25.5K, about the same price that I was being quoted for a new JD 4700. I priced out new Kubotas at same time I was pricing out JD 4700s. There was no substantial variations in prices. Prices were equivalent. Kubotas are good machines and command a good retail price. Same can be said about John Deere. To help you in your decision, look beyond the price at other attributes of both manufacturers and decide which machine can best meet your needs and desires.

Regards,
Bob Ancar
Cambridge, NY

 

[JATO_RaT]

Darren, what does this mean?

"The other difference between JD and Kubota is the economic issues. Since the dollar is so strong and the Japanese economy is in the basement, it may be cheaper to import Kubotas than build JDs."

I think of the JD's as green Yanmars. The loaders are built in Canada. Very little is manufactured in the US. Most of the tractor is imported from Japan.

Same goes with Kubota except that the loaders are made in Georgia (USA).

Rat...

 

[Dozernut]

Rat, you beat me to the draw /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. I wanted to tell him that John Deere is also made in Japan. All of the big three are made there, this pertains to compacts only. When you get to 50 hp and over, then you will find American made tractors. but nooo, you had to tell him first/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif. Just fun'nin with you, You don't have to be insane but it sure helps /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif.

 

[MJB]

The 4100s are built entirely in Japan. The larger 4000 series units, as far as I know, have only the engine and some small controls parts sourced from Japan. The transmission/rear axle assembly in made by Funk Manufacturing in Nebraska. The front axle is made by Dana Spicer somewhere in the USA. The loaders are made in Canada, and the mower decks and backhoes say "Made in USA". I have even seen markings on some of the castings that say "Made in Spain". It is truly a global product. The official country of origin for the larger 4000 series tractors is the good ole USA.

 

[PowerMax]

Kubota mower decks (as well as the loaders) are also made in Georgia, I believe. At least that's what the decal says.

Jeff

 

[MJB]

I believe that the JD 790 and 990 are also made entirely in Japan, by Yanmar, just like the 4100, 4010, 4110, and 4115.

 

[Darren]

It looks like the economics can go different ways. JD isn't buying Yanmars just to be buying Yanmars.
But when you look at it, at least three parties (Yanmar, JD & a JD dealer) have a rate of return built into the final selling price.

With a Kubota you have Kubota and the dealer unless Kubota is buying the tractor from someone else. Implements seem to be from all over the place. FWIW, I picked up my Kubota MMM in the crate. The paperwork was in Japanese. On the Kubota units comparable to JD's 4100 series it doesn't look like the dollar may play a part. On tractors above the 4100 series where JD doesn't import an equivalent tractor, I still think Kubota has an advantage over JD because of the strong dollar.

The dealer's desire to deal is the other factor. Some dealers have that "here's the price take it or leave it" attitude. Other dealers want to know what's the best price the customer has already been quoted. I think any JD or Kubota dealer can beat the competition if they want.

Until I'd bought my tractor, I had no idea there was a Kubota dealer about an hour away. The dealer does not advertise. He also didn't carry any of the L series I was considering. When I stopped to buy hydraulic fluid, I asked why they didn't advertise or carry the larger tractors. To make it short, the guy didn't want to deal. He complained about folks getting a quote and then beating him up (verbally) because he wouldn't match JD or Ford.

If you don't like the price try another dealer.

 

[Charliebrn]

My Kubota (BX2200) has Made in USA stickers on the tractor, the mower and the FEL...

 

[Carl_NH]

Region to region in the USA the competition varies. Where there is a dense CUT market and demand there are better prices (and most comparable) on the CUT's. By the same token where there is moderate CUT demand, but more ag influence, JD may be higher in price.

In the JD ag market these dealers are selling $50K to $200K+ machines to a stable group of local buyers that value long term relationships for service parts etc. Not to say that the Kub dealers aren't but its all about the dealers' market postition and one that he is focused on.

Both Orange and Green build good machines but ultimately serve different markets. If you consider what Kubota sells here in one year vs JD in total then this probably would put this in perspective.

Maybe someone with recent knowledge can provide some #s on JD Aq and CUT sales vs Kubota CUT & Ag in the USA.

Carl

 

[JATO_RaT]

Carl, out here where I live is perhaps some of the most intense agriculture/farming in the world. Here in Northern California we tend to have more of the orchard particularly almonds, walnuts and then the typical products like tomatoes and our world famous asparagus from the delta region. Without a doubt, John Deere is the dominant agriculture tractor used. There are probably 10 JD's or more for every other brand available. The market changes considerably though for the compacts. With no numbers, but rather observations, Kubota would easily appear to outsell JD, NH, and others combined by about the same margin. Most compact tractor dealers always carry at least 2 big names to survive. Many carry compacts and then industrial or Ag equipment to make the business profitable. My local dealer sells John Deere compacts and Kubota. The lot is 90% orange and the rest green. One would think that would mean he can't keep the JD's in stock, but of course, it does not. He tells me that the Kubotas outsell the JD's by a huge margin, and price has little to do with it. That may very well change with the new lineup from JD. My other local dealer sells NH and Kubota. He also says the Kubota outsell the NH "Boomer" tractors, but not by a huge margin like the Kubota/JD dealer. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth of information about the compacts. Rat...

 

[Carl_NH]

Mark,

Agreed the Orange outsell the Green CUT in most markets, and that's Kubota's objective to "own the market" by making great machines at good prices. Now JD has a much more diverse line and depending on the dealers local market they will be competitive to Kubota if that's the demand. If the local demand and sales are AG related JD dealers will stock and sell what moves the best. Your case exactly, with the JD/Kub dealer selling CUT's from Kubota and probably a lot of JD AG related machines and implements.

Where we are here in the east with fewer farms today (it's the rocks in NH) the dealers are focused on what sells - and that's CUT's and Industrial machines typically. Very few over 60HP or combines, balers etc.

That said, the dealer is going to stock and sell what makes his enterprise profitable. So when going into a dealer that caters to the CUT market likely you will get a more competitive deal just due to the fact that they 1. do more volume, 2, are focused on this market.

It would be interesting to hear dealer feedback on this topic.

Carl

 

[Anonymous Poster]

In Northern Oregon there are 3 JD dealers to every one Kubota. I own both and can tell you the ratio does not mean that much in terms of quality.
Find a dealer you can work with who has an honest mechanic and you are getting ahead of the game! Right off the bat.
I will not name names but I have had some difficulty with dealers-usually by taking their word for value on used machines-but also on shop time billings.
If you buy new, shop all dealers for price then find a dealer you want to do business with for shop time(if any).
Now days if you are a home owner you will never or rarely have to go to a dealer for much of anything-except piece of mind. The tractors(JD or Kubota) are simply built beyond most end user requirements.
If you have a commercial business then take a hard look and have your CPA figure it out. But never forget it is your gut fealing that makes the final business decision. Be that in China or at the local JD dealer, you have to feel comfortable with your decision.
My bottom line advice is go Kubota or Deere and you will be happy with your decision!