Where to connect a chain to pull trees/brush

[pat32rf]

I gotta agree with you toolguy. I have lifted the front wheels when hooked to a heavy load with the hoe or when trying to lift and drag a load that hangs from the end of my back blade. With HST there is no problem feeling it coming and backing off. In the safety videos I don't know if they had gear tractors but they were TRYING to flip them.
When I have been pulling logs from my 3pth drawbar I have felt the steering get a little light but never lifted the wheels. Not even when I have my 8000lb winch lifted to the highest 3pth position trying to winch a real awkward sucker out to the trail. I may have to park with a rear wheel backed against a tree to prevent dragging the tractor backwards but my wheels slip before the front lifts.
Its just not the same as letting out the clutch when hooked to an immovable object.....especially when you are on uneven ground and constantly watching for tipping sideways anyway. (I have winched until one rear wheel lifted on the odd nasty side pull, then I get out another snatch block)
Its mainly a case of watching out for the re-actions that come from your actions, knowing why they happen and what to do next.

 

[jdpharmd]

Flipping over backwards seems less of an issue. What about dragging and making a turn on a slope? This really unweights the uphill side and causes the pucker effect to kick in. I think that the most important thing that I have learned is to be ready for the tractors REaction to my action.

Slow and steady is my best advice.

 

[gemini5362]

Champy is doing it the right way. Hook the chain short and use the 3PTH to lift the front of the log. This will prevent it from digging in and in turn transfers weight to the rear wheels for traction. Or, just pull from a clevis in the stationary drawbar. Go slow and avoid driving over stuff like stumps and large rocks. If you have a gear tractor, avoid the lowest gears. Run the engine RPMs at half throttle, or less. Half throttle also applies to a HST. That way you will not have enough power available to pull the front end up. The engine will stall if for some reason the load stops moving. Most of the time you will not have enough traction to lift the front end, anyway. The rear tires will spin in all but the most extreme situations before the front end comes up. I can imagine that a lot of accidents occur because someone was in a low gear and at WOT. 3 mph at half throttle is a lot safer than 3 mph at full throttle. That power can get you in trouble fast if you don't know what you are doing. In spite of what you may hear, tractors are pretty safe when used as intended. Go slow, be cautious and have fun. Good luck.

I am not going to doubt your experience I just disagree with what you are saying. I have had loads almost flip a tractor over when hooked to a 3ph drawbar. I dont know if they would have flipped over or not but the front end was over waist high and still rising when I hit the clutch . I always pull from a swinging drawbar (fixed drawbar below the axle extending up to the middle of the tractor. ) and I have never had a problem like that.


I am wondering about something though. If you used the three point hitch to lift the front end of a log off of the ground then took a second chain and connected that to the log a foot or two behind the chain lifting the front of the log then attach that chain to the swinging drawbar where it is doing all of the actual pulling. Would that not give you the advantage of lifting the front end off of the ground but be pulling with the swinging drawbar.

 

[SFish]

Gemini:

Your idea would work, but not for a log with a diameter close to or greater than the ground to drawbar distance. Also, for larger logs you need the extra weight for rear wheel traction. Part of the be cautious and go slow advice includes making sure your tractor is balanced properly. If you are lifting the front then you need more weight on the front. I just get a big scoop of dirt in the loader.

Steve

 

[patrick_g]

I have dragged out logs that were way too heavy for the FEL to lift. Just lifting the little end of the log to get it on the trailer was as much as the FEL could do. Yet when pulling the log out of the woods up and down hill with the attachment point never higher than the axle, the worst I ever got was a bit light on the front wheels which interferes with steering but never went wheels up off the ground.

I was using a piece of 6 inch pipe with pins in the ends to fit the cat 1 lower arms. I welded circles on the ends of the pipe that were about 10 inches or so around to keep the chain from jumping off the end. The chain was secured to the drawbar and then run over the accessory drum I built and then down to the ground and around the log.

In use you lower the 3PH to hitch to a log and then raise the 3PH just enough to keep the blunt end of the log from plowing. The attachment point remains at or below the height of the axle.

It worked for me on logs over 24 inches in diameter up top 24-28 ft long. This is with a Kubota L4610 39PTO HP with hydrostat.

Pat

 

[Charlesaf3]

I have a minor disagreement with Diamondpilots post - ok, disagreement isn't the right word.

But I pull a lot of logs uphill using chain hooked on to the chain hooks on the FEL (poor mans logging winch). I can see how Diamondpilots friend got into trouble, but I avoid that situation in 2 ways. First, I don't yank logs. That gets you into trouble. I ease things really slowly. I'm sure Dps friend was yanking. Second, I have an HST, which I think makes things a lot safer - no in and out on the clutch, remove foot and tractor stops. Or better yet, edge forward and take the pressure off.

I have had the rear tires start to feel a little light, but just eased off and all was good.

THis also lets me use the FEL to lift the log up over stumps and stuff when it catches.

Care must be taken still however - its basically the equivalent of having a heavy load in your bucket, and being sloppy would no lead to a quick rollover.

Basically, I've found with everything with tractors, going slowly jelps keep you out of trouble. If you "yank" problems will happen. If I can't do something without "yanking" I figure out another way of doing it. Getting out the chainsaw and cutting the log in half and doing two drags is not the end of the world (though I do usually moan about it like it is, I'll grant)

 

[patrick_g]

Charles, That is one mighty capable looking FEL mounted auger you got there. Oh! Uh the topic...

Slow and easy till you find out what is going to happen never got me in trouble. Assuming too much and attacking too aggressively BEFORE trying it slowly for experience has lots of potential "pucker power!"

Take a look at the current History Chanel series, "Axe Men" noting the modified configuration of some of their body parts. I doubt any of them intended the consequences that "bit" them. It is unlikely they thought the accident was even probable. They are the pros and supposedly have the experience and knowledge and yet get maimed or killed.

I think the take home message is that you can hurry through something but if you continue to do risky things then suddenly, when you least expect it, you may be overcome by a gust of reality.

Pat

 

[arrow]

Mostly, this is about varying factors. The advice given on this subject will depend on the experience of the advice giver for a particular point in time with a particular set of factors. You have guys here that may have pulled 2 hitches, if that, in their whole life out of the woods and lifted the front end of their tractors enough to scare them into never doing that again and they will advise you to never do that yourself. Well, what were the factors? Big tractor with big rears? no front end loader? too large a load? going up a hill? starting off in low gear? Combination of the above? On the opposite end of that are guys who have been using their 3 pts to skid logs for years. What are their factors for them to recommend that its ok? Its like this... let's take motorcycling. There are people who buy a bike and they are dead in 2 weeks. Other people have been riding for 30 years. You have people who say never ride a motorcycle and others who'll state you are missing the best things in life if you don't ride. Look at the factors. Almost anything can be safe in one framework and dangerous in another, even if its the same thing. Regard yourself, the factors and make the decision best for you. Can you skid logs with the 3 pt safely? absolutely. Should you skid logs with the 3 pt is a whole nother question and depends on what I said above. A blanket statement either way is just wrong. What is the best way to skid depnds not on the advice but more on the factors.

 

[jimainiac]

Mostly, this is about varying factors. The advice given on this subject will depend on the experience of the advice giver for a particular point in time with a particular set of factors. You have guys here that may have pulled 2 hitches, if that, in their whole life out of the woods and lifted the front end of their tractors enough to scare them into never doing that again and they will advise you to never do that yourself. Well, what were the factors? Big tractor with big rears? no front end loader? too large a load? going up a hill? starting off in low gear? Combination of the above? On the opposite end of that are guys who have been using their 3 pts to skid logs for years. What are their factors for them to recommend that its ok? Its like this... let's take motorcycling. There are people who buy a bike and they are dead in 2 weeks. Other people have been riding for 30 years. You have people who say never ride a motorcycle and others who'll state you are missing the best things in life if you don't ride. Look at the factors. Almost anything can be safe in one framework and dangerous in another, even if its the same thing. Regard yourself, the factors and make the decision best for you. Can you skid logs with the 3 pt safely? absolutely. Should you skid logs with the 3 pt is a whole nother question and depends on what I said above. A blanket statement either way is just wrong. What is the best way to skid depnds not on the advice but more on the factors.

Amen to that, brother, and mega dittos.

 

[Oldtrout]

I have a bit of experience in pulling logs out of the woods,I probably moved at least 5000 cords and another 500 mfbm of saw logs using a farm tractor, like most I started off hooking to the draw bar,after a few times of almost standing the tractor on its tail I decided to buy a logging winch "farmi" complete with 175 feet of cable, 10 short choker chains,when cutting pulpwood we would lay down 8 or so trees and hook on the tops winch them in and hook them up to the draw bar on the winch using this method I could haul a cord at a time,if hauling pine saw logs I would haul 3 or 4 full length trees at a time depending on the size. I can't recall the tractor wanting to stand on its tail;After 2 winters of doing that I had A fairly good road system the logs acted like blade and took most of the rocks and humps out. However the guy that was cutting the trees to length roadside complained of dirt and having to sharpen his saw after each load I pulled out.

Since my road system was in fairly good shape I decided to build a power trailor, and attach a log loader on the tongue, the tractor I was using had ground speed PTO so it was no big deal to make a gear box,chain driven, I put on 28 inch loader tires I think they were 24 ply to give me the same clearence I had on the tractor,put tree farmer tires on the back of my tractor again 24 ply put a full skid pan under the tractor and covered everything with heavy gauge wire about 1/2 inch mesh. It was an awsume unit,I designed the trailor to haul 2 cords of pulp or 1000 fbm sawlogs, at one point I needed to get a dozen loads of logs roadside in a hurry so I hired a 2 cord porter to assist me I could put 2 loads roadside to his one and not worring about upsetting my tractor,trailor yes, done that twice .However hitch was designed to swivel; all I had to do was pull it back on its feet by the loader.

Now I suspect some of you are wondering what I had for a tractor, well it was a 825 Belerus 4X4 74 HP. I can see where most farmers wouldn't care for them however for doing woods work they were excellent, I never had a bit of trouble i just made sure it was properly serviced ie cleaning filters or changing them and lots of grease I sold the complete unit with 6000 hours on it however the clutch was starting to slip but no shame for it,the guy that bought it put in new clutch and pressure plate started to move wood the following day and as far as I know its still going.

I at present am waiting for my new Kioti ck25 to arrive,I won't be using it in the woods as I think its a bit small for that, I still have my woodlot and since there are lots of bigger farm tractors around here with winches I will hire someone to pull my firewood out alongside my woods roads; build a small trailor for the kioti and cut and split my wood in the woods and bring home that way.

Sorry for the long post ,however the person who owned the property before me had a massy 135 and was pulling a log on the 3 pt hitch to make a long story short I bought the property from the estate after the tractor flipped on him. Hauling trees with a small tractor without A winch gives me the willies,one may get away with it 999 times however all it takes is one mistake; in my opinion if you are going to move trees get a heavy properly equipped tractor, and use common sense.