Which Backhoe?

[jfh0jfh]

I have been shopping for a used backhoe $15-$25K. I started out at $25K but there seem to be lots of deals there: big contractors don't use TLBs anymore, business is slow.

This is for farm use and some ciustom work. I've had mostly JD but also Case & MF.

Some advice I've gotten is to stick to < 2001 Case or NH as the newer ones are redesigned around Italian parts and are harder (and more expensive) to fix. Haven't really looked into JCB as hear parts hard to get. Found a couple of low-hour Terexes. Cat seemed overpriced; Komatsu don't know; Kobelco is Fiat; Volvo too new to be affordable.

Have run some NHs recently and the trans seems to slip in high gear. Could be my lack of experience with them. But Cases w/ similar hours seem much crisper.

Preference is Ford 655D/E, JD 410 E/G, Case 590 L/ SL. Prefer a heavier machne as often used more gently and cheaper due to transport costs - small operators don't want to move them around. Ideal machine was the Deere 510 we had but they're no longer made.

The best prices (given good hours eg. <=3500) so far are Ford 655D, Case 590L and Terex.

Any advice about good/ bad machines from a durablity/ repair standpoint.

 

[john_bud]

From what I have heard, those are all good choices. Maybe someone, like Builder, with direct experience with those machines can chime in.

I do like your thought process. Heavier machine possibly being in better shape.

jb

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, the heavier machines have worked well for us.

 

[AlanB]

I would try and find a dealer that would support you, and support that brand with parts etc when the need arose, and as you know, it will come up.

I went with a Ford 555C becuase I had several avenues to get parts and support and they seem pretty common.

The Case machines have great support as well, but all I tried were VERY tired.

I was assured repeatedly that JCB had good parts support, but just could not take that plunge. The support here came out of a JD dealer, who always felt to "uppity" to talk with me when I went in. Always made me feel out of my leauge when I went to speak with them (heck, I guess I was when I looked at thier prices )

By going to the bigger then standard machine, I would think that would narrow availability a lot, or increase travel time to go see it.

Hope you find one that suits you well. We have been very pleased with ours.

It was kind of nice, even the wife yesterday said she was really glad to have it.

 

[tlbuser]

Opinion only, given the choices I would go the Case route. From my experience, parts (JD vs, Case) Case parts were easier to get and usually cheaper too. I don't have any experience with Terex, but they do spec. out to be pretty nice.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks for the comments.

I've had good luck w/ JD, partly because I have a friend at JD ag who can often get parts for me - at 1/2 or less than the gougers at JD yellow.

My experience w/ Case is limited. Dealer network is certainly strong.

It's true, there are fewer of the larger machines. But what I've seen is that the smaller ones are either tired or overpriced. it's easy enough to haul a 6.5-ton machine around behind a one-ton but it's a little motre effort to haul 8-9 tons.

But generally I've found the larger machines to be in better shape.

Right now the nicest machine I've found is a 655; the best deal is a low-hour Terex. We'll see tomorrow at the Ritchie auction ~ 20 TLBs, mostly newer case.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks. I expect I'll go w/ Case or Ford unless a strong JD appears out of the mist.

 

[Builder]

I would go with Case for the simple reason that they're still in the business of building backhoes. You never know when parts for Fords will start getting scarce. Scarce=expensive. You'll also need more parts for the Ford. I've owned both and the Ford was a good, solid machine, but nowhere near as powerful or ergonomic as a CASE 580 or 590. The 590 is a 100HP machine, but I think you'll find the 580, even with 8 less HP feels like it's got more azz to it. It might be because the extra weight of the 590 slows it down. The 590 is better suited for heavy hydraulic fluid demands, like running a breaker, tamper or setting heavy septic tanks. My Ford dipperstick was really high up there. It constantly hit low limbs and scared me going under bridges. The Case dipper is a LOT more compact the way it snugs up to the back of the machine.

Case's are built in Racine, WI or Iowa. Fords are built in Belgium, unless they're really old then they might be American made. My Ford 555 4x4 leaked more oil at the seals than I would have liked and it was only ~75HP. My case is ~92HP turbo and feels a lot stronger. The push button locking differential mounted on the loader stick is really nice, too.

Either one will serve you well. Don't hesitate buying a good used Ford. Me personally, I just always had a dislike for buying things that were no longer made. Ford's been out of the B/H biz for ~10 years now.

Don't count out JD, either. They hold up well and I see a lot of older JDs for sale that were former township machines. I really wanted a Deere 310SG, but just couldn't find one in my price range.

Good luck! let us know what you end up buying.

 

[Richard]

I'm just an itty bitty homeowner (about 2 acres). I've owned a JCB 1550B for maybe 7 years now.

I've blown a hose (couple actually ) replaced seals on crowd cylinder, new muffler, new fuel sending switch (so my gauge would work), transfer pump and I think I had the alternater looked at (was fine)

Oh and I have replaced all the tires.

This thing runs smooth as a watch and I've been able to get anything I"ve needed done taken care of at the dealer.

I'd say not to shy away from JCB "just because". If you have other valid reasons to do so then fine...shy away. But I'd at least give it a fair look and make sure the merits are all weighed properly.

 

[Builder]

Thanks for the comments.

I've had good luck w/ JD, partly because I have a friend at JD ag who can often get parts for me - at 1/2 or less than the gougers at JD yellow.

My experience w/ Case is limited. Dealer network is certainly strong.

It's true, there are fewer of the larger machines. But what I've seen is that the smaller ones are either tired or overpriced. it's easy enough to haul a 6.5-ton machine around behind a one-ton but it's a little motre effort to haul 8-9 tons.

But generally I've found the larger machines to be in better shape.

Right now the nicest machine I've found is a 655; the best deal is a low-hour Terex. We'll see tomorrow at the Ritchie auction ~ 20 TLBs, mostly newer case.

Terex always gives you the most bang for the buck. I almost bit on a new 760, but decided a slightly used Case is better than a new Terex. The Terex did dig deeper, had bigger front tires and had more FEL lift strength.

I really like the Cummins (Consolidated) diesel in the Case hoes. It's just downright unbreakeable.

Larger B/H's can be actually cheaper than the mid size machines b/c they appeal to a much smaller group of buyers. Most of the time a Case 590 sells for slightly less than a Case 580 with similar hours & condition.

 

[D7E]

My reply is going to be a bit one sided because i grew up in the UK but have lived in 3 different countries ,Owning and operating for construction and pipeline and highway building and world wide JCB is no1 i know parts are supposedly hard to get but i know many people in canada who say otherwise ? We had fleets of 50+ machines and every time the JCB was the best ,The drivers preffered them ,cheaper to run , Would stand higher hours , Standard 4in1 bucket ,The first "extendadig"And jcb's strong point was always "GOOD dealers and many better features than other brands and the highest resale value but that will not be the case in the us or canada .Granted that the post 2002 machines are too "electronic" but are'nt they all .Jcb might not be popular here but cat are not popular in europe so ? it does'nt mean much .
Just look at market shares world wide Jcb backhoes and telehandlers are over 70% and sell more machines than Cat and JD combined and were the original telehandler in the early 70's ,Case is a good machine and i still have one but not the quality of a JCB ? like it or not they are coming and the US is the only country that they have to break? Sorry for my "soap box" ...I have a case because they are cheap thats all? The only way to make a jcb better would be to add a CUMMINS bit perkins is no problem .

 

[Builder]

My reply is going to be a bit one sided because i grew up in the UK but have lived in 3 different countries ,Owning and operating for construction and pipeline and highway building and world wide JCB is no1 i know parts are supposedly hard to get but i know many people in canada who say otherwise ? We had fleets of 50+ machines and every time the JCB was the best ,The drivers preffered them ,cheaper to run , Would stand higher hours , Standard 4in1 bucket ,The first "extendadig"And jcb's strong point was always "GOOD dealers and many better features than other brands and the highest resale value but that will not be the case in the us or canada .Granted that the post 2002 machines are too "electronic" but are'nt they all .Jcb might not be popular here but cat are not popular in europe so ? it does'nt mean much .
Just look at market shares world wide Jcb backhoes and telehandlers are over 70% and sell more machines than Cat and JD combined and were the original telehandler in the early 70's ,Case is a good machine and i still have one but not the quality of a JCB ? like it or not they are coming and the US is the only country that they have to break? Sorry for my "soap box" ...I have a case because they are cheap thats all? The only way to make a jcb better would be to add a CUMMINS bit perkins is no problem .

That's a good arguement for why to buy a JCB in Europe, since JCB is #1 in Europe, but since he's operating in the USA, he'd be better off operating a brand that gives him better parts support in the USA. Case, Deere & CAT are bigger here in the USA.

I think JCB does make a nice machine, but their resale value in the US? Frankly it stinks and they seem to have a lot of reports of wiring/electronics problems. Even with that said, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if there was solid local dealer support and the price was low enough. You can get a lot of JCB here for a cheap price b/c they tend to have low resale value.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks Builder. I'm not ignoring JD (I've had 3) but I'm just not finding any. I passed up a 610B recently that I should have bought but I'm holding out for 4WD. A 610C 4x4 would probably be the perfect machine for me.

Right now the Ford 655D/ 675D, Case 590 SL, or JD 410/ 510 look like the best bet. I was looking at NH but after seeing them sell for nothing yesterday (I posted a separate thread about it) I'm thinking I'll forget NH

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks Richard. I ran a JCB (large one) yesterday. it was just too rough. That's what I've found so far - all the JCBs for sale in this area (OH) are really abused. I'm not afraid of them per se buit for anything like the same money I'd have to take Case/ JD/ Ford.

 

[jfh0jfh]

Thanks D7E. I lived/ worked in Europe too and saw JCBs everywhere. Maybe like Fiat though: great in Europe but never had the dealer network here.

I am willing to look at them, I'm just not finding decent ones.

(I sold a D7E ~ 3 years ago. Nice machine but too much for my repair skills).

 

[jfh0jfh]

re 2-3 of you who made comments about larger machines being harder to find and cheaper.

Yes, that is exactly why I prefer them. I only need to move the macine once - from the seller to my farm. I road it to jobs (rarely) but mostly use it here. My 510 JD (20,500 lbs) was too big to borrow but everyone I knew with a 1-ton thought they could haul my old 310 (~ 12,000).

In my experience, larger machines are used more gently, have lower hours, and are definitely less expensive. For me they dig deeper and move more dirt (and pack better) - ideal.

I'd even consider a JD 710 although a 12-ton backhoe is a bit ridiculous.

 

[jmfox]

In the old days we made anything work. Some how we managed to accomplish unbelievable tasks with junk. But today, I am appreciating the value of getting the right tool for the job. Spend the time and get the right machine. A large wheeled machine is probably smoother and steadier, and may suit your style and type of work. Every manufacturer has different definitions for hydraulics and transitioning. For example I was comparing new compact track machines and found that JD has a nervous and pounding engagement for their bucket controls. Some might like this, but I prefer a smoother response. These subtle things don't sound like much until you consider the thousands of times you move these levers in a day.

jmf

 

[D7E]

@ builder ...Don't get me wrong i've been in canada 10 years and i would rate most of your AG machinery above european any day and and am no european "salesman" ..You have good stuff .
All i am saying is an un biassed opinion of backhoes ,We've run 100's of backhoes..Case,Deere,Cat,Ford,Fermec,Hitachi,MF,Volvo,Komatsu,Bobcat ? and there is a top 3 , From an owners and operators point of view .
#1 JCB
#2 CAT
#3 CASE
The others came and went .
I appreciate the bad parts backup that maybe in the states but here in canada its getting better and is only a matter of time ..Government are using JCB now ?
Jcb excavators aint so good ..Nice to use but weak undercarriage ,JCB has always been known for "SMOOOOOTH" movements and visability ?
If you can't drive a jacob you can't drive ?

 

[D7E]

Thanks D7E. I lived/ worked in Europe too and saw JCBs everywhere. Maybe like Fiat though: great in Europe but never had the dealer network here.

I am willing to look at them, I'm just not finding decent ones.

(I sold a D7E ~ 3 years ago. Nice machine but too much for my repair skills).

Bought it out of protest ...Hired 2 contractors to clear bush and they filled the fires with dirt and left the stumps in the ground and charged me full whack so i got mad and spent a lot of money to prove a point ...Best thing i ever did It's a 180 hp "67" powershift ,24 v start 80% undercarriage ,New chains ,Cylinders new and new transmission ,Full rops ,Angle blade and hyster winch $20'000 ?
Worth more now than i payed for it ...Done the 90 acre clearing job but she's a keeper ?

 

[D7E]

JCB had the first .."RIDE CONTROL" and "HYDRO CLAMPS" , built the first tele-handler too ?
And "overlap" their parts like axles, trannies,hydraulics in backhoes,telehandlers .
And you will "NEVER" see a welded boom on a JCB ?