Which tow vehicle to buy?

[neverenough]

I have had a 3/4 ton diesel (SRW) and now have a 1 ton (DRW) diesel. I have a 12,000 lb gross weight trailer with 4 wheel electric brakes. I would not be happy with much less truck with much over 5-6000 lbs behind me. I don't care wht the manufacturer's ratings say, It is my BEHIND that is behind the wheel when some bozo cuts me off when braking to a stop around a curve with a tractor on the trailer with 1300 lbs of box blade and FEL. This isn't an issue of convenience or economy that you have brought out for discussion. This is a clear case of safety and stability. Sure you may never drag race your truck with a loaded trailer on behind but if you don't have enough OMPH to safely accelerate to speed and merge into interstate traffic then you are an accident waiting to happen. I suggest an exhaust brake too. - - - - - - Pat

What does acceleration have to do with braking??? Ford used to put the 300 straight 6 in thier cab-chassis 1ton DRW trucks. It took forever and a day to get up to speed, but it handled and stopped just the same as the trucks with the 460.

...and BTW, a DRW truck with no, or a partial load, is more dangerous in an emergency situation than an equal SRW truck. DRW's lower the contact PSI of the rear tires. Until you overcome this loss of PSI, with weight, you have less traction for cornering and braking. So, by being a very defensive driver while driving with a large load, that you haul once in awhile, in the end, you are much safer overall with a SRW truck if it's main use is driving lightly loaded or empty. If most of the miles are loaded with fairly heavy loads, then yes, a DRW truck is much better.

 

[Joe1]

Well, I've certainly learned a lot about the plug problem on the V-8 & V-10. What a great site for information.

Neverenough: Regarding the "gas hog" 460, my RV has one and I don't brag about mileage and neither did my friend with his 89 F-250 4X4 five speed 460. The engine, is however, a rock crusher. Even with this engine, Ford used low grade bolts holding on the exhaust manifolds. When the manifolds cracked, the bolts were "welded" into the heads and were difficult to remove without breakage.

Ford not changing the head design on the 4.6, 5.4 and 6.8 is not a surprise. Remember the Cruise-O-Matic that would drop into reverse from Park. That killed over 260 people during the 70's and 80's. Ford didn't care about a fix.

Remember the Pinto. A $15.00 change in the straps holding the tank would have cured the problem, but Ford fixed neither one believing that to make the changes would acknowledge a problem that would lead to further litigation and losses.

Maybe the original poster should consider something besides a Ford.

 

[neverenough]

Neverenough: Regarding the "gas hog" 460, my RV has one and I don't brag about mileage and neither did my friend with his 89 F-250 4X4 five speed 460. The engine, is however, a rock crusher. Even with this engine, Ford used low grade bolts holding on the exhaust manifolds. When the manifolds cracked, the bolts were "welded" into the heads and were difficult to remove without breakage.
.

Up, that's why I said they were never given a chance. My 429/460 in my truck is pretty much factory off the shelf parts, but they never came together in one motor. The main issue with the 460 was the compression. After '71 they were doomed to less than 8.5:1 CR. Most of them were 8:1. way too little compression to get any power or efficiency out of the motor. 9.2-9.5:1 CR with roller rockers, a better exhaust manifold, and a little more open exhaust, and reports of 12-16mpg would have been very common.

I hear of a lot of people with manifold bolt issues. It almost sounds like a heat issue. Most of them were in motorhomes and vans.

All of the car makers have had issues over the years. Corvair, K-car, Pinto, Cavalier, '90's Dodge trucks, pretty much any Chev truck/SUV made between '87 and '04, Dodge Durango's/Dakota's, mid to late '90's Rangers and F-150's, ect...

 

[HGM]

Up, that's why I said they were never given a chance. My 429/460 in my truck is pretty much factory off the shelf parts, but they never came together in one motor. The main issue with the 460 was the compression. After '71 they were doomed to less than 8.5:1 CR. Most of them were 8:1. way too little compression to get any power or efficiency out of the motor. 9.2-9.5:1 CR with roller rockers, a better exhaust manifold, and a little more open exhaust, and reports of 12-16mpg would have been very common.

I hear of a lot of people with manifold bolt issues. It almost sounds like a heat issue. Most of them were in motorhomes and vans.

All of the car makers have had issues over the years. Corvair, K-car, Pinto, Cavalier, '90's Dodge trucks, pretty much any Chev truck/SUV made between '87 and '04, Dodge Durango's/Dakota's, mid to late '90's Rangers and F-150's, ect...

I agree... The 460s downfall was emissions compliance..In stock form, it was prety weak(considering its potential).. That was a large part of Fords move to OHC. When redesigning engines for emissions, advancing in technology should be a no brainer..

I'm curious where you got the info about the 6.0L being 5yrs old? I never heard that.. It was certainly being tested, but it didnt come out untill '01(in International trucks) from what I understand.. In Navistars chassis, it is close to 250hp(if I remember correctly).. So, its proof from testing was not realistic.. I see the 6.0L in the same boat as the story you gave of the 460..

BTW guys, I just saw a video available from Ford regarding maintenance.. If you have a late model truck and havent recieved this video, a call to the dealer might get you one.. I havent tried to get my hands on one but its a cd that all owners should have IMO..

 

[neverenough]

I'm curious where you got the info about the 6.0L being 5yrs old? .

Navistar engineer. He never did say, and I never asked, if that was full production, or just in a test fleet.

 

[bx23barry]

Two problem areas with the power strokes are dirty oil and poor quality control of injector performance. Both easy fixes and will make alot of difference. I have seen 100 HP gains by installing good matched injectors alone in a poor running PS. There is big range of performance from the factory in these engines. If you get/got a good one you are lucky. Here is qiuck link.
The Power Shop

 

[Turbys_1700]

I purchased an 03 F-350 Crew Cab Dually 4x4 in Jan of 04... It was a 1 owner with 38K miles...It had the last of the 7.3 Liter engines...Great truck...You may find an 02 or 03 with the 7.3 in lieu of the 6.0...But...They are not cheap...High resale values due to high demand...Good luck in your search...Just keep in mind that I don't know anyone who ever traded in a larger truck for a smaller one or anyone who traded a diesel in for a gasser...

 

[RobertN]

I agree... The 460s downfall was emissions compliance..In stock form, it was prety weak(considering its potential)..

This is really a blanket statement. It is even more so for California vehicles. 460's, 454's, 440's; it hit them all. Lower power, low compression smogger motors. Small blocks too. Once emissions came in to place, especially on carbuerated motors, they were slugs.

I would interested find out about the Dodge V10 and Ford V10; It is my understanding that they went away from 460's and 440's because it was harder to get a clean burn with a large bore. The V10's gave them large displacement, but the cylinders had a smaller bore which gave better efficeincy in the burn. Would be interesting if this is the case. It does kind of make sense.

 

[Dargo]

I purchased an 03 F-350 Crew Cab Dually 4x4 in Jan of 04... It was a 1 owner with 38K miles...It had the last of the 7.3 Liter engines...Great truck..

Yup, that does indeed sound like a fantastic truck!! They do keep really strong resale. I seem to have lucked into having a truck that has also kept really strong resale; I have one of the later model 5.9 Cummins in the 12v configuration. Nothing is wrong with the 24v version, but the 12 valve version will run on about anything you put in the tank, will go 500k miles while being abused, and can be really be cranked up on power for not very much money.

With the high resale value, and several guys telling me that they'd want to buy my truck since it's never spent a night outdoors and has never been dirty, I've been considering a new truck but the prices on the new trucks are enough to choke a horse! Right now the Ford is out for me because of the 6.0 liter. The GM is out for me because of the Duramax. The gas V10 trucks are out because I've test driven the Dodge and Ford versions with my trailer and both were extremely disappointing after having had my Cummins power for so many years. So, that only leaves the Dodge diesel right now for me. I'd like to have more of a choice. I need to find out how long I have where I can deduct the truck for business all in the first year. That may make up my mind on when I get a new truck. Still, I paid for my truck in full the day I bought it, so I've never had any payments. The idea of picking up a new 30 or 40k one time payment (difference after selling mine) just seems to kill the appeal a bit.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

This thread has gotten way off topic. I picked up an 04 250 PSD. I love it, and the more I heard folks talk about the 6.0 the more I realized that the people doing all the crying weren't even owners. Lets be honest how can you really go wrong. You get a 100k warranty on the engine and tranny and the truck handles pretty good for a heavy duty truck. I tested ford,gm and dodge and found none were 100% perfect. But the truck I ended up with is the best of both worlds tons of towing power in a truck I can drive to work. And I'm already getting 16mpg so that's an inprovement over the 150 5.4.
In a few years I'll trade in this one and go through it all again. Thanks for all the relevant input.

Matt Traficante