Egon
Epic Contributor
<font color="red"> </font> too old (early 40's)
Sure wish I was that age and too old.
Egon
Sure wish I was that age and too old.
Egon
Who makes the BEST garden tractor?
- Thread starter Bob_Skurka
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Bob_Skurka
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OK Egon, I'll fess up, you caught me in a lie . . . I'm nearly almost into my lower-mid 40's. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif But I'm fighting it!!!
MossRoad
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- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
<font color="blue">You spoke your feelings as a TRUE American should!! </font>
Yeah, I'm good at that part /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Yeah, I'm good at that part /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Schultz
Gold Member
As I understand the weight transfer systems, the lift cylinders are given some low hydraulic pressure, which the operator adjust by a pressure regulator knob. The lift cylinders do some work by picking up some of the weight of the mower. That weight is then transferred to the tractor.
I'm sure with some difficulty you could add it to your's.
I'm sure with some difficulty you could add it to your's.
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Bob_Skurka
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I finally had the weight transfer system explained to me. At least the system on the model tractor I have. It is an always engaged system that uses a spring mechanism to support the weight of the front mounted implement while the hydraulics are set in the "float" position. The spring mechanism moves the weight distribution to the front wheels to increase the traction.
On my model (and I have no idea if this is true for all Ventrac's or just for mine) there is no adjustment knob as the system is automatic. I understand the system on the Ventrac 4200 allows you to engage or disengage it, but I don't know if it is adjustable. The Ventrac 4100 has an OPTIONAL weight transfer system. I played with some Steiners, but don't really know how their weight transfer works, I just know it did, and I was not nearly as happy with the ergonomic design of the Steiner as I am with the Ventrac. That was the main reason I chose Ventrac over Steiner.
On my model (and I have no idea if this is true for all Ventrac's or just for mine) there is no adjustment knob as the system is automatic. I understand the system on the Ventrac 4200 allows you to engage or disengage it, but I don't know if it is adjustable. The Ventrac 4100 has an OPTIONAL weight transfer system. I played with some Steiners, but don't really know how their weight transfer works, I just know it did, and I was not nearly as happy with the ergonomic design of the Steiner as I am with the Ventrac. That was the main reason I chose Ventrac over Steiner.
MossRoad
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By moving the weight distribution to increase traction to the front wheels.... does this mean it lifts the impliment a bit? If this is the case, it sounds very similar to draft control.
When you here about weight distribution systems, I get this picture of some counter weight moving around inside the machine somewhere. Of course, an implement could be a form of counterweight. If the impliment out front was in float, its weight would be on its own wheels. If you lift it a bit, it would put more of the weight on the front tires. Very interesting.
When you here about weight distribution systems, I get this picture of some counter weight moving around inside the machine somewhere. Of course, an implement could be a form of counterweight. If the impliment out front was in float, its weight would be on its own wheels. If you lift it a bit, it would put more of the weight on the front tires. Very interesting.
MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
Yea, thats how I understand it works.
I agree that the Ventrac has better egronomics. One thing to be careful with is the amount of linkage thats used to put the controls where they are. There have been a few in our shop with problems because of that. No question that they are great machines. If you had to have a "best garden tractor" I guess that would be it, although these are hardly garden tractors.
I agree that the Ventrac has better egronomics. One thing to be careful with is the amount of linkage thats used to put the controls where they are. There have been a few in our shop with problems because of that. No question that they are great machines. If you had to have a "best garden tractor" I guess that would be it, although these are hardly garden tractors.
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Bob_Skurka
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you had to have a "best garden tractor" I guess that would be it, although these are hardly garden tractors. )</font>
<font color="black"> Neil, you aren't going to start that whole mess about what IS and a garden tractor versus what IS a CUT or a SUB-Cut are you? I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the LAWN tractor versus GARDEN tractor definition whenever I go into LOWE's or HOME DEPOT and see machines that basically look the same but with different engine sizes and maybe a CUP HOLDER added or even a 120-volt electrical outlet!?! </font>
<font color="black"> Neil, you aren't going to start that whole mess about what IS and a garden tractor versus what IS a CUT or a SUB-Cut are you? I'm still trying to figure out the difference between the LAWN tractor versus GARDEN tractor definition whenever I go into LOWE's or HOME DEPOT and see machines that basically look the same but with different engine sizes and maybe a CUP HOLDER added or even a 120-volt electrical outlet!?! </font>
The "weight transfer" systems as used by Ventrac and Steiner and "draft control" system as used by Power Trac produce the same end results but they do it a bit differently. That end result is to increase the net down-force on the front wheels of the articulated tractor and somewhat reduce down-force on the rear wheels. This increased down-force produces more traction and increases steering response, i.e., it helps keep the tractor from trying to "push ahead" instead of coming around when turning on a steep sideslope.
When mowing with all of these tractors having decks out front, it is necessary to put the hydraulic lift into "float" so that the deck can follow the contour of the terrain independent of the power unit. That means that only a very small portion of the weight of the deck (specifically some of the hitch parts) is actually applied to the tractor.
On the other hand, if you were to raise the deck completely off the ground, all of it's weight is now carried on the tractor wheels. Now the tractor has the greatest amount of traction and steering response possible. The only problem is that with the deck off the ground you can't mow.
So weight transfer provides a compromise between these two extremes. Mechanical springs on Ventracs and Steiner 430s and a hydraulic boost system on Steiner 525s and 230s and some Power Tracs are engaged to apply SOME up-lift to the front hitch. When the front hitch is in FLOAT position this lift tends to raise the deck, but it is not enough to get the deck wheels and rollers completely off the ground. The wheels and rollers just barely touch and therefore can follow ground contours just as you want the deck to do. But a PORTION of the deck weight is now being carried by the tractor and aids in traction and steering. To see just how much transfer occurs, several years ago I did some measurements and calculations for a Steiner 430 with 60 inch deck. The deck weighed 360 pounds. With weight transfer engaged and the front lift in Float, all but about 40 pounds is transferred to the tractor.
On the Ventrac 4000 series tractors, the amount of weight transfer is adjustable to account for differing weights of front attachments and can be completely shut off. On the Ventrac 3000 it is preset at the factory and is always "on." On the Steiner 430, it is basically either "on" or "off" and is normally used only with a mower deck. On Steiner 525s and 230s it is hydraulically adjustable to accomodate attachments of different weights.
One additional side benefit of having weight transfer is that it also increases the front hitch lift capacity when lifting a heavily loaded slip scoop. I also use it to "fine-tune" the float when using a power broom and power leaf blower.
When mowing with any of these units on level to slightly sloped terrain you won't notice any particular benefit from the weight transfer system. However, if you operate on side slopes you will see a dramatic difference between having weight transfer "on" or "off." (You really can't do this experiment on a Ventrac 3000 since it's weight transfer system is always "on.")
On articulated tractors not equipped with a weight transfer system, when operating on side-slopes you often need to slightly lift the deck to get the needed traction and steering. This works, but the deck is not really following ground contours. Therefore, the operator has to constantly tweak the lift hydraulics to try to keep the deck positioned to produce as level a cut as practical.
Hope this helps.
JackIL
When mowing with all of these tractors having decks out front, it is necessary to put the hydraulic lift into "float" so that the deck can follow the contour of the terrain independent of the power unit. That means that only a very small portion of the weight of the deck (specifically some of the hitch parts) is actually applied to the tractor.
On the other hand, if you were to raise the deck completely off the ground, all of it's weight is now carried on the tractor wheels. Now the tractor has the greatest amount of traction and steering response possible. The only problem is that with the deck off the ground you can't mow.
So weight transfer provides a compromise between these two extremes. Mechanical springs on Ventracs and Steiner 430s and a hydraulic boost system on Steiner 525s and 230s and some Power Tracs are engaged to apply SOME up-lift to the front hitch. When the front hitch is in FLOAT position this lift tends to raise the deck, but it is not enough to get the deck wheels and rollers completely off the ground. The wheels and rollers just barely touch and therefore can follow ground contours just as you want the deck to do. But a PORTION of the deck weight is now being carried by the tractor and aids in traction and steering. To see just how much transfer occurs, several years ago I did some measurements and calculations for a Steiner 430 with 60 inch deck. The deck weighed 360 pounds. With weight transfer engaged and the front lift in Float, all but about 40 pounds is transferred to the tractor.
On the Ventrac 4000 series tractors, the amount of weight transfer is adjustable to account for differing weights of front attachments and can be completely shut off. On the Ventrac 3000 it is preset at the factory and is always "on." On the Steiner 430, it is basically either "on" or "off" and is normally used only with a mower deck. On Steiner 525s and 230s it is hydraulically adjustable to accomodate attachments of different weights.
One additional side benefit of having weight transfer is that it also increases the front hitch lift capacity when lifting a heavily loaded slip scoop. I also use it to "fine-tune" the float when using a power broom and power leaf blower.
When mowing with any of these units on level to slightly sloped terrain you won't notice any particular benefit from the weight transfer system. However, if you operate on side slopes you will see a dramatic difference between having weight transfer "on" or "off." (You really can't do this experiment on a Ventrac 3000 since it's weight transfer system is always "on.")
On articulated tractors not equipped with a weight transfer system, when operating on side-slopes you often need to slightly lift the deck to get the needed traction and steering. This works, but the deck is not really following ground contours. Therefore, the operator has to constantly tweak the lift hydraulics to try to keep the deck positioned to produce as level a cut as practical.
Hope this helps.
JackIL
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Bob_Skurka
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Jack . . .
You were an engineer(?) for John Deere, you've owned Steiners, Deeres, Ventracs, and maybe a few others. You obviously know about the weight transfer systems and a lot more than that. So here is my question to you . . . WHO MAKES THE BEST GARDEN TRACTOR?
You were an engineer(?) for John Deere, you've owned Steiners, Deeres, Ventracs, and maybe a few others. You obviously know about the weight transfer systems and a lot more than that. So here is my question to you . . . WHO MAKES THE BEST GARDEN TRACTOR?
