Why are Kubota FEL's so weak?

[goeduck]

Almost every time the topic comes up, it's due to a simplistic understanding about loader capacity versus height. Everyone looks at the load number but doesn't compare the height. Kubota and Deere loaders generally lift 8-12" higher than most competing loaders. If you look at the capacity not at max height, but at the lower height of the competing loaders, the Kubota and Deere ratings are often similar and sometimes even higher.

Last time the debate came up, I distinctly remember comparing this between the L2501 and a Mahindra 1626. Somebody chose the Mahindra because the loader was stronger on paper and poo-poo'd all over the L2501. But when we looked at the loader curves they were the same, it just happened that the Kubota went higher so it had a lower rating on paper. So in that comparison, all the buyer did was handicap himself with a lower height and didn't gain any actual load capacity.

Maybe it's Kubota's fault for not explaining this. Maybe it's the customer's fault for not understanding, or only considering the capacity and not the height. Either way, there is more to it than capacity and it's unfortunate if that gets missed when people shop for tractors.

Excellent point :thumbsup:

 

[ptsg]

Almost every time the topic comes up, it's due to a simplistic understanding about loader capacity versus height. Everyone looks at the load number but doesn't compare the height. Kubota and Deere loaders generally lift 8-12" higher than most competing loaders. If you look at the capacity not at max height, but at the lower height of the competing loaders, the Kubota and Deere ratings are often similar and sometimes even higher.

Last time the debate came up, I distinctly remember comparing this between the L2501 and a Mahindra 1626. Somebody chose the Mahindra because the loader was stronger on paper and poo-poo'd all over the L2501. But when we looked at the loader curves they were the same, it just happened that the Kubota went higher so it had a lower rating on paper. So in that comparison, all the buyer did was handicap himself with a lower height and didn't gain any actual load capacity.

Maybe it's Kubota's fault for not explaining this. Maybe it's the customer's fault for not understanding, or only considering the capacity and not the height. Either way, there is more to it than capacity and it's unfortunate if that gets missed when people shop for tractors.

Doesn't seem to be all that true.

Here are some specs for various brands, all capacities and heights at pivot pins:

Kubota L2501 - 1131 lbs at 94"

Branson 3015 - 2200 lbs at 104"

Kioti CK3510 - 1835 lbs at 98"

LS MT225HE - 1600 lbs at 94"

Apparently, other brands lift more and higher.

Now, I'm comparing all tractors from the same size. Yes, there is some HP difference between some, but won't matter whatsoever, since they all are the same frame size.

 

[BRMyers]

Doesn't seem to be all that true.

Here are some specs for various brands, all capacities and heights at pivot pins:

Kubota L2501 - 1131 lbs at 94"

Branson 3015 - 2200 lbs at 104"

Kioti CK3510 - 1835 lbs at 98"

LS MT225HE - 1600 lbs at 94"

Apparently, other brands lift more and higher.

Now, I'm comparing all tractors from the same size. Yes, there is some HP difference between some, but won't matter whatsoever, since they all are the same frame size.

If you look at the L3560, since the other tractors are 30-35 horse and put on the LA805 loader, then the comparison might be equivalent 1715lbs at 104.7".

Even with all the numbers, if you are happy with your tractor great, if not, get a different one. I haven't found anything that I can't do with mine that i have wanted to do, so for me, my tractor has met all my needs.

 

[ptsg]

If you look at the L3560, since the other tractors are 30-35 horse and put on the LA805 loader, then the comparison might be equivalent 1715lbs at 104.7"

As I said, I compared tractor from the same size frame, and relatively close weight. The L60 series is slightly bigger and going for that route, I would have to compare to the Branson 3520, weighting 4053 lbs and lifting 2700 lbs at 104".

Again, I'm comparing tractors of the same size and weight. 5 HP variation for lifting capabilities, will not make any difference. But, for even closer comparison sake, Branson will release the 2515 soon, which is the same exact tractor as the 3015 but with a de-rated engine producing 25HP. The weights, size, features, lifting capacities will be the same.

 

[BRMyers]

As I said, I compared tractor from the same size frame, and relatively close weight. The L60 series is slightly bigger and going for that route, I would have to compare to the Branson 3520, weighting 4053 lbs and lifting 2700 lbs at 104".

Again, I'm comparing tractors of the same size and weight. 5 HP variation for lifting capabilities, will not make any difference. But, for even closer comparison sake, Branson will release the 2515 soon, which is the same exact tractor as the 3015 but with a de-rated engine producing 25HP. The weights, size, features, lifting capacities will be the same.

I did notice that and I also notice that the L3560 is within the same range of those other tractors. You are correct if you would compare the other tractors in the L60 series to this group they would be larger, but the L3560 is built on a smaller frame than the others and close in size in this group.

3015R
Wheelbase: 65.8 inches*[167 cm]*
Length: 118 inches*[299 cm]*
Width: 57 inches*[144 cm]*
Weight: 3014 lbs [1367 kg]

L3560
Wheelbase: 71.1 inches*[180 cm]*
Length: 115 inches*[292 cm]*
Width: 59.8 inches*[151 cm]*(min)
3494 lbs [1584 kg] (GST ROPS)

L2501
Wheelbase: 63.3 inches*[160 cm]*
4WD Length: 106.3 inches*[270 cm]*
Width: 55.1 inches*[139 cm]*
4WD Gear Weight: 2601 lbs [1179 kg]

 

[BRMyers]

As I said, I compared tractor from the same size frame, and relatively close weight. The L60 series is slightly bigger and going for that route, I would have to compare to the Branson 3520, weighting 4053 lbs and lifting 2700 lbs at 104".

Again, I'm comparing tractors of the same size and weight. 5 HP variation for lifting capabilities, will not make any difference. But, for even closer comparison sake, Branson will release the 2515 soon, which is the same exact tractor as the 3015 but with a de-rated engine producing 25HP. The weights, size, features, lifting capacities will be the same.

Also, the L60 Series, with he exception of the L3560, can use the LA1055 loader if i remember correctly, which is a lift height of 112.7" and 2361 lbs at height.

 

[tradosaurus]

Just more dishonesty from some tractor brands trying to undercut John Deere and Kubota's market share. Another reason why I would never buy from a dishonest tractor brand.

Mahindra claims a mCRD technology which meets Tier IV compliance stating "This means no excess heat or burn off and less complexity for the operator".
So basically Mahindra's "new" technology uses a detoxification catalyst which just means that instead of burning hot for a little bit (Regen) it burns hot all the time. Slight of hand and deceptive.

 

[Grateful11]

Also, the L60 Series, with he exception of the L3560, can use the LA1055 loader if i remember correctly, which is a lift height of 112.7" and 2361 lbs at height.

An L4060 can only get the LA805 loader.

 

[SloppyJoe]

Just more dishonesty from some tractor brands trying to undercut John Deere and Kubota's market share. Another reason why I would never buy from a dishonest tractor brand.

Mahindra claims a mCRD technology which meets Tier IV compliance stating "This means no excess heat or burn off and less complexity for the operator".
So basically Mahindra's "new" technology uses a detoxification catalyst which just means that instead of burning hot for a little bit (Regen) it burns hot all the time. Slight of hand and deceptive.

It's not dishonest, those tractors actually lift those heights and weights. That's a silly statement. One thing pstg failed to mention. Not only are these tractors approximately the same weight (some maybe a little more or less) but they are a similar price point to the L3901/L3301. The Grand L series is considerably more. If I was looking at the Grand L series, I would compare it to a tractor priced similar. How much more does JD and Kubota advertise than the others? That is built into the price that the consumer pays for. I am not brand blind. I think that the Kubota BX is considerably better than the Kioti CS. It has a quick detach FEL from the operating station, fender controlled FEL joystick, flat head hydraulic connections and get this, a STRONGER FEL. Kioti doesn't have that in the CS. The CS costs less but you get less tractor. The Branson, Kioti, LS and TYM numbers are accurate and it's the extra capacity on the FEL is useful to me and others. Look at pstg's post. He had a Kubota and liked it, but when he shopped for a new tractor he was open minded and not brand blind. It will be a long time before I look at a new one but when I do, I want to check them all out.

 

[LD1]

Its all options to us as buyers and thats a great thing.

None of the tractors are identical. Size, weight, specs, heights, etc.

Take a tractor and compare it to its competitors that are "slightly" smaller, but close because they dont have an exact comparison.....sure its gonna win. Its what MFG's do. They would never compare it to the "slightly" larger.

Case in point.......illustrated above.

The branson 3015 is 400 pounds HEAVIER than the 2501 and 5 HP more.....but thats a fair comparison?
But the L3560 is 400 pounds HEAVIER than the 3015 and 5hp more and now its no longer a fair comparison and we should compare it to the 3520 branson? That is 650 pounds HEAVIER?

simple fact.....branson and kubota dont really have any good direct comparisons in the 25-40 HP range.

And within manufactures there is so much overlap of frame sizes and HP. Kubota 3901 vs kubota 4060. Both ~40hp class tractors......but not even i the same league.

Branson 3520 vs 3515 is another example.

couple that with different loader options, and the sky is the limit

We shouldnt be arguing about what tractor is better and comparing paper stats. We should be focusing on all the different options and getting a tractor that best suits ones needs. Because the options are nearly endless. If you need to lift a ton....branson makes a tractor that does that. But guess what, so does kubota, deere, kioti, NH, mahindra, etc. One may be a bit wider, or longer, or smaller or larger tires, or lift highter or lower, or weigh more or less. But it doesnt matter.

But dont harp on the fact that the 3015 is a stronger machine than a L2501. It is. It was built to be. Its physically bigger, heavier, etc. And if you insist on harping on that comparison with a clearly SMALLER machine, dont take offense when someone whats to compare a clearly larger machine to the branson that makes the branson look inferior.

Maybe its worth noting again, the 3015 and 3515 are 3000# tractors. Kubota DOES NOT MAKE a 3000# 30-35hp machine. They make a 2600# machine and a 3400# machine