Why can't Toolcat use the Digger?

[IslandTractor]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

As you pointed out Brian, there are trade offs. It does seem to me however that Bobcat is pretty clear on how they designed and marketed the toolcat. The website shows it as primarily used on prepared grounds and maintaining roads, hauling stuff etc rather than as a general purpose ground engaging construction tool. Toolcat webpage

I would imagine that while most of the particicpants on this forum are using the toolcats for personal use and try to make it a jack of all trades, that most toolcats are probably bought by large institutions to help grounds crews maintain rather than clear land or as a construction tool. It seems optimized for that type of activity rather than being out on the farm or digging. Much better for many things than a tractor TLB set up but not a substitute for everything the TLB can do.

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

dannyk and IslandTrader,
I notice my Bobcat Toolcat elicits very favorable impressions from many different people with diverse needs. The current Toolcat 5600 and the upcoming 4600 address the needs of two sub-groups. But Bobcat can build even further on the Toolcat's favorable reactions in two ways:

(1) expand the Toolcat product line model range -- for example, introduce models to suit the target market of 5 - 50 acre property owners and contracting pros who want Toolcat convenience and comfort as well as a different set of applications like more digging and heavy-duty work (so maybe remove suspension, etc., but still retain essence of inital Toolcat concept) and other tasks done well by CUTs;

(2) "Toolcatify" other product lines such as skid-steer loaders, all-wheel-steer loaders, TTCs and mini-excavators by adding things people like from the Toolcat, such as comfort and convenience, easy entry & exit, strong aux. hydraulics, multi-purpose possibilities, etc., without fully turning these other products into multi-purpose Toolcats.

Bobcat Company could actually pursue both strategic initiatives simultaneously to stay ahead in the compact vehicle market. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bobcats would become attractive to even more market segments, including people who would otherwise buy either PowerTracs or traditional CUTs or TLBs. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[keeney]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

In terms of voting for a smaller Toolcat, I agree with most of the suggestions. Especially the removable doors and cab glass (I'm from MN too - no true need for air conditioning, but heat is nice).

I have to disagree and say that keeping some of its UTV qualities are important. Otherwise you might as well look at small wheel-loaders like Powertrac and such. That means keeping seating for two, keeping at least moderate travel speed (12 to 15 MPH?), keeping some suspension (even if its not full 4-wheel independent) and keeping the cargo bed.

Also, I would think that front-only steering with a mower on the front would be a bit awkward. For example, trying to trim tight to a tree, the back of the machine would "cut the corner" and run into the tree. Rear-steer or all-wheel steer is better for front-mounted mowers. Look at how all the purpose-built front-mowing machines do it.

- Rick

 

[IslandTractor]

Re: Why can\'t Toolcat use the Digger?

Brian,

It ain't difficult to see why Toolcats get positive responses. They have that same swiss army knife appeal that the PowerTracs do and they have a climate controlled cab and a great dealer network. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I guess my point was that someone who thinks they can just substitute a Toolcat for a TLB is going to run into some disappointments. I know the Toolcat is very capable but it is noteworthy that any engineer who expected a fairly heavy vehicle to be "off road" (and I am not meaning to exclude pasture land or fields) would have used bigger tires so you wouldn't get stuck in mud and also to generally increase traction. Those same bigger tires would significantly worsen the road handling so it seems pretty clear to me the Toolcat is optomized for a different type of terrain than a farm tractor. It also, as pointed out in this thread, is not designed for a backhoe or mini hoe type attachment, again apparently because the suspension set up to make that work would be detrimental to road handling.

Please don't get me wrong, I can easily see how someone could do a needs analysis and decide the Toolcat was, well, the cat's meow. But they had better be clear that they will not be buying a TLB equivalent. I know a lot of you guys are using them successfully to clear land but I imagine that is stretching the design a bit. At least it is difficult to see any advantage of the Toolcat compared to a less expensive 50hp TLB (with cab /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) in that particular setting especially when there are stumps and saplings >2-3 inches to deal with. However, one possible advantage of the Toolcat even in that setting would be relative stability on slopes. I do fully appreciate the "ranch vehicle" pluses for the Toolcat and for those functions it clearly excels where the tractor is rather pathetic.

My main point: people who think of buying Toolcats should not be snowed because they are so cool (which they are) but because they have determined that they really need this vehicle rather than a TLB. Of course we'd all like to have at least one of each but in the meantime we need to choose which one will accomplish our most important tasks most efficiently and effectively.