Why Diesel???

   / Why Diesel??? #121  
As much as I distrust "consumer distorts", I am surprised that they listed that. Maybe they are getting a bit less enchanted with Japanese products?
 
   / Why Diesel??? #122  
I bought a tractor in a southern province. I reset the mileage meter when i left. I had been doing 220 km with empty trailer, and 220 km loaded with a 1800 kg tractor, and drove 100 km/h on the highway. When i got home the meter said i'd been driving 9.5 km per liter... If i had a gasser, i would have used that fuel even without pulling a trailer... ;)

9.5 km per liter would be about 22 miles to the gallon. Car is a 1996 Volvo 850 2.5 TDI, and the trailer was (off course ;) ) a Doornwaard DPW 3500kg mid axle tandem on ultra low 12" balloon tires.



About reliability, some newer technologies, and totally new developed engines cause problems. Wait till the gasoline engines get a new design from scratch, and see how reliable those are... ;)
 
   / Why Diesel??? #123  
Renze said:
About reliability, some newer technologies, and totally new developed engines cause problems. Wait till the gasoline engines get a new design from scratch, and see how reliable those are... ;)

That's why the advice is never to buy software with a release number of 1.0 or any vehicle in its first year of production. ;)
 
   / Why Diesel??? #124  
Renze said:
About reliability, some newer technologies, and totally new developed engines cause problems. Wait till the gasoline engines get a new design from scratch, and see how reliable those are... ;)

What I found interesting, is that at least here in the States, all the cars and pickups have recent engines from scratch or close to. And, they don't get that much better mileage than previously.

The newer ones are meeting much tighter emission standards, and have impressive power; maybe they give up power for HP?

Why can't you get a 1/2 ton 2wd pickup with ~25mpg? With 5 and 6 speed double OD trannies and the latest computer control, fuel injection etc?
 
   / Why Diesel??? #125  
Robert, my dad would agree with you 100%, and I'm not far behind. He notes that cars have gained 800-1000lbs in the last 15 years for the same size car, and while some of that is safety, it's still true when you compare to very safe cars of the late 80's (SAAB, Volvo, Mercedes). Where is all that weight coming from? As for trucks, all the work seems to be going into the most powerful V8s and diesels with HP ratings comparable to small semis, with little or no work in smaller engines. GM is still selling their precambrian 4.3L V6, for crying out loud, and I don't know of significantly better options from Ford, Chrysler or Nissan. Toyota has a decent 4.0L V6 with modern tech, but it clearly doesn't get lots of attention either. I think 6speed transmissions make a huge difference for trucks by eliminating the axle ratio compromises needed with a 4spd, and should allow a modest V6 to handle large loads as long as you're tolerant of slow acceleration when loaded - seems like a reasonable tradeoff to me. But it doesn't seem like any company is looking to make and sell that option, even though they all have declining truck sales and profits that follow those sales. Weird marketing decision from my point of view.
 
   / Why Diesel??? #126  
6 speeds are pretty much standard now, in European small trucks (vans)
Still you can only get the full 8750 kg CGVW on a mercedes sprinter with the highest axle reduction ratio. With the lowest reduction ratio, these vans will do close to 200 km/h which means that of the new 2006 Sprinter model, there are already a good number available at wreckyards because of rollovers, drivers losing control etcetera... ;)

The lower hp with a 6 speed: Off course there's a reason that semi trucks use 13 speed Fuller trannies instead of a 4 speed ;)

Lots of the weight gain in cars, is added airbags, exhaust catalysers, electric window motors, air conditioning with climate control, etcetera.

euro 4 semi trucks use more fuel than euro 1 trucks because the engines run less efficient to lower the combustion temperature, to lower the emission of NoX....


About my previous statement, and comments on it, i'd have to add that i see that as one of the main reason that GM stopped their 2 stroke Diesels: 2 stroke gives better cards in the game to make a low weight, high performance engine because the pistons work at every crankshaft revolution.
But because 4 stroke technology was more commonspread, they dropped the 2 stroke diesels as the 4 stroke technology was more refined and more knowledge was available from other sources.

I personally, if i was a millionair and only had to work filantropically to serve the world, and not earn an income for myself and possibly a future family, i would have been experimenting with a 4 stroke diesel. well, that would be basically a 2 stroke engine, which uses an extra compression and work stroke, at which water is injected, to extract the last bits of thermal energy in the hot gases by steam power.

Some inventor already made an engine with internal cooling, based on a 4 stroke engine, which became a 6 stroke engine. search Wikipedia for 6 stroke engine
 
   / Why Diesel??? #127  
Renze said:
The lower hp with a 6 speed: Off course there's a reason that semi trucks use 13 speed Fuller trannies instead of a 4 speed ;)

Where you been? Eaton Fullers are now 18 speeds...:D
 
   / Why Diesel??? #128  
But the trend is toward fewer gears in Class 8 transmissions. Lots of 7 and 9 speeds; Mack used 5 speeds for years (may still for all I know). It had to do with the useable torque range of engines getting much wider. In the old days, with only a 200-300 rpm range of useful torque, many gears were required. With a wide torque range, you don't need all those gears.
 
   / Why Diesel??? #129  
cp1969 said:
But the trend is toward fewer gears in Class 8 transmissions. Lots of 7 and 9 speeds; Mack used 5 speeds for years (may still for all I know). It had to do with the useable torque range of engines getting much wider. In the old days, with only a 200-300 rpm range of useful torque, many gears were required. With a wide torque range, you don't need all those gears.

Mack 5 speeds used to make up for it with a three speed auxiliary transmission with a separate shifter...many a guy got the famous forearm bruise using them, when they reached thru the steering wheel to shift the auxiliary transmission shifter while shifting the 5 speed transmission at the same time and have a front wheel drop in a pothole which jerked the steering wheel and thus the forearm bruise...:D

80,000 lbs on the I-70 in Colorado will definitely benefit having more than 9 speeds...even with today's diesel engines...:D
 
   / Why Diesel??? #130  
I am not sure how this has spun this way, but you can get EF's in 13 or 18. I personally prefer the 13, but I spent the most time driving those. If only it were not for the 4:10 rear end I had... I could get to 60 dang fast though, after that...OTOH, a LOT of today's big trucks have automatics in them. Never driven one, but have seen a ton of them roll through our plant. I have no clue now many speeds they have or how they are geared. Oh... and I still have my Diesel.:)
 

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