Why do tractors cost more in New England?

Henro · Mar 26, 2004

When I was buying my first tractor I did not haggle on price with my dealer, because I thought his price was fair for the package I was buying: Tractor, loader, backhoe, RFM, Toothbar...maybe something else...

Then the day before I was going to sign the papers...I realized that I had made an error in my calculation, as I had included something I was not buying in my estimate (I don't remember what it was, but it was worth $&00).

So I was upfront with the dealer. I told him I had not tried to bargain because I thought his price was fair to start with. I also told him that I did not try to bargain for that reason.

But now that I discovered my mistake in my numbers, I would have a problem buying without shopping around the other local dealers (which I had not really done, because the other close Kubota dealer turned me off).

I told my dealer I was being honest in the matter and thsi was not a negotiating tactic, which it certainly was not.

I actuall apologized for messing up, and told him I could not live with myself if I bought the tractor for the price we discussed on the phone, now that I saw what my numbers should have been.

He told me it was natural in these things for him as the dealer to want as much as possible for a tractor, and for me as the purchaser to want to pay as little as possible. He said his pricing usually does not allow much leeway. That he tends to offer a fair price and not play games.

I felt bad and I said, why don't we split the difference? I offered to split the difference, and pay $350 more than my original number, if he was willing to do that.

He discussed it with his new manager of the Kubota dealership (he has two, Blue and Ornage) and they decided to make the deal.

I think he still made a bit on the deal. How much, I don't know.

 Hmmm? I wonder if you would take your financial report (Fed/State tax forms) into the dealer and let the dealer decide how much you could afford to pay? Seems fair to me. 

I like that, Beenthere! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Isn't that the truth? In all of our cases...

Bottom line is that as consumers we have an obligation to ourselve to pay the least amount for the identical product...and the seller has the obligation to himself to sell as cheaply as possible to take business away from his competition and maximize his own profits...life under capitalism can be tough sometimes... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tractors are more expensive in New England than elsewhare because people in New England are willing to pay more for them than people elsewhere. And possibly also because overhead costs are higher than elsewhere...I guess that is the answer I would give if someone asked me... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Junkman · Mar 26, 2004

( Just my opinion, but I have not found too many friendly people in New England, I think the dealers are just mean.
)

I've been gone for a few days and the first post that I come back to read I find this! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Right before I left, someone told me that I was rude because I asked what type of wax they used. They didn't understand that I was only joking about a post that they had made. I didn't **** that person for not having a sense of humor, I apologized. Now you tell me that since I live in New England that I am not friendly! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif At least my dogs love me /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif and my ungrateful sticking hydro pedal BX was glad to see me back in the garage this morning. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif As for the Kerry / Bush debate.... pick your poison. Personally, I wouldn't give you a plugged nickle for either of them! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif If you don't like the people in New England and you don't think that we are friendly, don't come here. We won't miss you and I am certain that you won't miss us either! I don't go where I am not invited and I don't stay where I am not welcome. Maybe more people ought to adopt that attitude. That is why fences make good neighbors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

AndyM · Mar 26, 2004

I've been gone for a few days and the first post that I come back to read I find this! Right before I left, someone told me that I was rude because I asked what type of wax they used. They didn't understand that I was only joking about a post that they had made. I didn't **** that person for not having a sense of humor, I apologized. Now you tell me that since I live in New England that I am not friendly! At least my dogs love me and my ungrateful sticking hydro pedal BX was glad to see me back in the garage this morning. As for the Kerry / Bush debate.... pick your poison. Personally, I wouldn't give you a plugged nickle for either of them! If you don't like the people in New England and you don't think that we are friendly, don't come here. We won't miss you and I am certain that you won't miss us either! I don't go where I am not invited and I don't stay where I am not welcome. Maybe more people ought to adopt that attitude. That is why fences make good neighbors. 

Uhhhhh, welcome back Junkman.
You are certainly unique from all other New Englanders.

JCA · Mar 26, 2004

beenthere wrote:
Hmmm? I wonder if you would take your financial report (Fed/State tax forms) into the dealer and let the dealer decide how much you could afford to pay?

That's not the same thing at all, I'd say, since I'm not asking him to show me his whole budget--just how much he paid for the tractor I'm planning to buy. I don't need to know how much the other folks paid for theirs. So he doesn't need to see all my financial information, though I'd be happy to show him how much my check is made out for.

Fact is, though, that I wouldn't have even thought of asking if it weren't for the fact that prices up here are higher than they are elsewhere. One possible reason folks might be willing to pay more up here is that the market might not quite be free. Fact is, prices up here are higher than other places. So I want to make sure those prices are fair. I'm hoping to develop a long-term relationship with a local dealer, but if that's going to happen we're both going to have to play nice.
Jim

Bob_Skurka · Mar 26, 2004

Junkman, welcome back, but I stand by what I wrote, and I didn't write that everyone in New England is mean. I said I have not found too many people who are friendly and I think the dealers are just mean.

As for the wax comment you made to someone else, maybe then thought you meant ear wax?

As for the Kerry / Bush debate . . . I don't recall anyone bringing up the Texan, only the Taxachussets candidate, but I am willing to sling mud at both if you'd like me to. I just didn't see the need at the time because the other guy was not mentioned.

I'm sure your dogs are happy to see you, they probably like being fed again. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif (see guys I do know how to use smilies to indicate when I am joking!)

lamarbur · Mar 26, 2004

JCa,
As much as I believe the majority of N.E. dealers have that take it or leave it attitude, one should also be fair to them. My wife pretty much runs a Chrysler dealership for an almost full time absentee owner. People come in every day, "we looked it up on the net, you guys are getting hold back, back door monies, etc etc".. This is true and it is false. When you, as the owner of a dealership and have two hundred new vehicles to pay interest on, how do you think it is done? their interest figure per week, I will bet is a lot more than you pay adding all bills youpay in a months time. Where she worksm the hold back is applied to interest. Where she works, there is no more getting anywhere nere the MSRP. They want to move numbers, and to do it, they sell a few hundred over cost. If enough are sold in a month, and thenubmer is ridiculously high I think, they can get some back door minies to make up for some of the loss.. I don't think it is right for you or anyone else to know exact costs to any dealer simply because you might be the type like I see go in her place. No one wants to hear 8500 a week or whatever it is in interest and the hold back to be applied against it. I will draw the line on knowing the dealers cost only because of this. A very high number of dealers, cars and other products, are out of trust, and a lot can be blamed on too much info front he net. The info is OK< no one knows how to really interpret it, and it further hurts the dealers.. I stand by saying, cost, plus set-up, plus shipping then add 1000, in N. E. area, and it would be fine.. Or about two grand. Not an MSRP of 10 G's and sell no less then 10G's..

JCA · Mar 26, 2004

lamarbur wrote:
As much as I believe the majority of N.E. dealers have that take it or leave it attitude, one should also be fair to them.

Yep, I agree. I'm just the type that wants information when I buy something. I guess I'm a little tight with money, want to justify every penny. If I go into a hardware store and they say "how much for that axe" and they say "50 dollars," I'm not gonna buy it until I know what it is that makes that a $50 axe...especially when I saw one down the street for $30.

Ever have a friend who liked to share, but never had any money? Go out for a drink and you always end up buying? I'm all for sharing, but it has to be a two way street. As I've said before, I want a good, long-term relationship with the people I buy from. I'll be decent and reasonable and I'll be loyal. If they do me right, up front, that tractor will never be serviced anywhere else, and I'll buy all my attachments from that dealer. But I'm not going to let them take advantage of my loyalty. As I said in another thread, they've got to show me something, first.

But you're right, we ought to be fair to the dealers. And the dealers I've talked to are probably honest, decent folks. I hope I haven't suggested otherwise. But I'd still like to know why tractors cost more up here than they do further south. And I still don't feel like I know the answer. One thing's for sure, in my area it ain't because people are rich, and it ain't because property values are high.

Jim

lamarbur · Mar 26, 2004

For one, I have no idea where you're talking as your bio is empty. I assume sowmehere in the N.E.area. Where I live a lot of people are out of work and those that do, struggle and really struggle hard. So I know what you are saying. I also agree prices here are higher (most dealers not all) than they probably should be. Not that I know much about Corriher and what they are doing to other fellow NH dealers. I know when you look at their page and read a basic plain Jane 55DA for 19G and ask here for the exact same thing (apples to apples) and get a price of 28G, something isn't right somewhere. Even if it was a 55 DA with EHSS transmission and the quote was 21,900 or close, I can see this. Anyway, we can ask, complain and whine about this topic all day long, I don't believe you will ever get an acceptable answer.

mundamanu · Mar 26, 2004

I should probably just hold my tongue, since this argument, which is silly, has gone on long enough -- although there have been some good points made about why prices may be higher -- but, I need to add my two cents.

The fact of the matter is that there are different ways of living to accomodate different living environments.

Let's adopt saying hello to people as our friendliness standard, which it seems is what many people use as a standard. Well, lets see what my day would be like if I said hello to everyone I came into contact or closely shared space with today.

I work in downtown Philadelphia (I lived here for 10 years too, but have since moved to an urban-almost-suburb). As I was reading this thread, I was trying to estimate how many people I have come within a foot or two of since this morning.

First, I was packed in like sardines on the train. Second, I was packed in like sardines on a bus. Third, I was packed in like sardines at a traffic light waiting with about a hundred people to cross the street. Fourth, I was packed in like sardines in the evelevator up to the office. Fifth, I was packed in like sardines waiting to pick up a sandwich for lunch. Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth will repeat First through Fourth in reverse order, and since my wife and I go out to dinner on Friday nights, Tenth will repeat Fifth.

Now, this is a normal business-district city day. If you don't go into the business district Philadelphia (and all cities) are significantly less crowded on any given day.

So, without exaggerating, I have come into contact with I'd say close to 500 people since 8:00AM. There will be another 500 before the day ends. That makes 1,000 hellos. These are all people that I could have said hello to or otherwise made feel welcome. If I said hello to every one of these people, I'd be hoarse by now. The fact of the matter is that I come into contact with more people in a week (especially when I lived downtown) than many people have in their whole towns.

Service people (waitstaff, public transportation employees, cashiers, etc) in densely populated areas see more customers per day than service people in some rural areas see in a week.

It seems to me that "saying hello" or being welcoming as the friendliness standard is an illegitimate standard to hold an urban or a densely populated suburban (much of southern New England and the Mid-Atlantic) to.

A much better friendliness standard is how helpful people are. And the answer is very. I have noticed five people in need of help today (a woman with a stroller and a baby getting on a crowded bus; a man carrying a computer tower getting onto a crowded train; a blind man waiting for the bus; a man who tripped and fell as he stepped off the sidewalk; and an old woman who was trying to step up onto a bus [the hydraulics that lower the steps were broken]). Every single one of those people was offered help by more than one person, immediately.

Do you have any idea how much patient helpfulness it takes to be squashed in like sardines? My toes have been stepped on ten times today! I have stepped on ten sets of toes! I've been elbowed in the ribs. In each case, I requested to be excused or was asked to excuse whoever crushed my toes. If you have never danced your way out of a packed like sardines bus, train or subway, you have no idea how much help it takes. On the bus today, I had a guy pressed up against my back like he was my lover, for goodness sake! I sure as heck didn't want him there, and he didn't want to be there! He, embarassed, begged pardon and I did what I could to grant it, which was shrug my shoulders. Guess what, we helped each other by grinning and bearing it. Seats are given up. Space is made available. Hands, arms and bodies are lent. Upset people are consoled by strangers. If city-folk weren't constantly helping each other in ways too subtle for non-city-folk to detect, we'd be hacking each other to pieces with knives and blowing each other to bits with handguns.

What was that excellent quote that somebody mentioned on one of the threads the other day? His father used to say it all the time. I think it was: "A man is never as tall as when he stoops to help somebody in need." Well, that attitude is not reserved for rural people.

Are there mean, unfriendly people in the city? Of course! Plenty of them to go around. Does everybody help people all of the time? Of course not! But guess what, there are plenty of mean, unfriendly, unhelpful people in the country too.

I'm sorry to go off like this. I just get very frustrated when people think that there is a single standard for evaluating the quality of a person or a way of acting or living.

p.s. -- I haven't got the foggiest idea why tractor prices in New England are so high.

bebster · Mar 26, 2004

Didn't mean to offend anyone in the great state of Maine. It's just that although the lots are large there, the population is small. So that means fewer tractor customers for dealers. They have to charge higher prices because they can't make it up in volume. In states like Mass. especially eastern Mass, there are more people but a smaller percentage of people who have the need for a tractor. Take Rhode Island, for example, and a friend of mine in Texas has a ranch 1/2 the size of the whole state! Can't be that many buyers of tractors there either.

Also, consider the weather. Agriculture in NE is a tiny fraction of other parts of the country. So few tractor sales can be justified for ag businesses.

All in all it means that volumes in NE have to be smaller than other regions. That's where you find dealers with big enough volumes to be able to price aggressively because they can make it up in volume. Often times manufactures give dealers rebates and incentives based on volumes, and these dealers probably benefit this way and are able to charge less.