Why is Hydraulic Tilt Useful?
- Thread starter glennmac
- Start date
- Views: 8564
hayden
Veteran Member
Good vent. Feel better?
Here's my take at your questions, but keep in mind that I've built a TnT, but haven't really used it at all.
1. You can't tell when your implement is level unless you get off your tractor and eyeball it.
True - or you need some sort of gadget. I think I might have found my next project.
2. You can only tilt in one direction with the cylinder.
Not really true. This only happens if you set it up like Bird has where the fixed side it the length of the cylinder side in the fully open or closed position. Normally the fixed length woudl be equal to the midway length of the cylinder so you have equal tilt in both directions.
3. If you set the cylinder up to allow tilt in both directions, you compromise the ability to lift your 3ph up high,
and, as in 1 above, you cant tell when you have returned to level.
The level issue stands true. Compromising lift height is an artifact of the way bird has set his up, and is an artifact of no existing tilt cylinder that's really made and sized to the 2710/2910. If the tilt cylinder were the perfect length, it's mid point would be exactly the length of the fixed link. Then you have equal tilt in both directions and unchanged lift height. I could have cut my cylinder rod down or used a 3" rather than 4" cylinder to get perfect length, but figured the difference wasn't significant. Mabe I'll discover otherwise when I get some air time with this thing.
Here's my take at your questions, but keep in mind that I've built a TnT, but haven't really used it at all.
1. You can't tell when your implement is level unless you get off your tractor and eyeball it.
True - or you need some sort of gadget. I think I might have found my next project.
2. You can only tilt in one direction with the cylinder.
Not really true. This only happens if you set it up like Bird has where the fixed side it the length of the cylinder side in the fully open or closed position. Normally the fixed length woudl be equal to the midway length of the cylinder so you have equal tilt in both directions.
3. If you set the cylinder up to allow tilt in both directions, you compromise the ability to lift your 3ph up high,
and, as in 1 above, you cant tell when you have returned to level.
The level issue stands true. Compromising lift height is an artifact of the way bird has set his up, and is an artifact of no existing tilt cylinder that's really made and sized to the 2710/2910. If the tilt cylinder were the perfect length, it's mid point would be exactly the length of the fixed link. Then you have equal tilt in both directions and unchanged lift height. I could have cut my cylinder rod down or used a 3" rather than 4" cylinder to get perfect length, but figured the difference wasn't significant. Mabe I'll discover otherwise when I get some air time with this thing.
John_Mc
Elite Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2001
- Messages
- 4,564
- Location
- Monkton, Vermont
- Tractor
- NH TC33D Modified with belly pan, limb risers & FOPS. Honda Pioneer 520 & antique Coot UTV
Medusa was the one so ugly you turned to stone looking at her. She had one head, but I believe had snakes for hair.
Bird
Rest in Peace
<font color=blue>Hayden called your tilt cylinder an artifact.</font color=blue>
Yeah, and I first wondered where he came up with that, but according to my dictionary, he's right!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But of course my top link is an artifact, too./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
And the only thing I know about artichokes is that I've seen some in the grocery store./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Bird
Yeah, and I first wondered where he came up with that, but according to my dictionary, he's right!/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif But of course my top link is an artifact, too./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
And the only thing I know about artichokes is that I've seen some in the grocery store./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Bird
bgott
Veteran Member
How about rigging a hydraulic motor on the leveling arm? You'd have your original up and down range and wouldn't have to climb down from the tractor to mess with it. Paint a couple of range marks on the rod and you could come back to the level -with -the- tractor point without any problem. You wouldn't have to worry about leak down. It probably wouldn't cost more than a grand to fabricate. 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bgott on 08/25/01 00:23 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bgott on 08/25/01 00:23 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
patrickg
Veteran Member
glenmac, It is refreshing to witness a discussion of Homer and it NOT be a guy with a last name of Simpson. Next I suppose you'll try to convince someone that you can hear the William Tell Overture and not think of the Lone Ranger!
Patrick
Patrick
patrickg
Veteran Member
Ahh, poor Bird, equipment so old it is called an artifact. I came in late so reserve the right to make out-of-phase erroneous comments.
I have TNT (not the explosive, the hydraulic thingy) I have 3 valves: top, tilt, and aux (for hydraulic scarifier box blade and tilting the cement mixer). Kubota standard stuff, dealer installed, dealer reinstalled under waranty as you gotta have room for female disconnect(mounted to tractor) to float toward tractor when inserting male disconnect (on hydraulic hose) [No giggling in the back of the room!]
I have no problem with raising things quite high with 3ph, e.g. I raise the 6 ft heavy duty brush hog up well past 45 degrees to allow me to back it into trees that are too big to mow over. (It begins eating the smaller part several feet above ground then I lower it over the tree, eating as it goes. WITH N O O N E within hundreds of yards to be endangered by thrown debris!
I can tilt in either direction (not equally but usefully). I suppose since the manually adjustable part that the tilt cylinder replaced was moved to the left side (other side) by the dealer, the mech thought it was a good idea. It is set to one end of its travel and I haven't adjusted it otherwise, YET. Maybe I should move it about midway (not the island) uh halfway in its travel and see if that equalizes my bi-directional tilt. I like the way it tilts really high in the one direction as it allows me to make a fair ditch in a few passes. I have no argument against folks with a cylinder on each side, sounds groovy and likely they could be hooked up opposite to each other and only require a single hydraulic control valve. I just don't like the idea enough to spend the resources to do it unless I become frustrated with my current setup which is "STOCK KUBOTA" and works just fine.
Leveling my brush hog has been a challenge as apparently my judgement/depth perception, irrespective of my success flying, racing, etc where you need depth perception and judgement, isn't working as well as it should or I need a tutor or a mechanical assist. I tried to use the brush hog for a plow, not on purpose but it just turned out that way, still I don't blame the tilt just the loose nut on the control lever, me. In general my land is not flat or level but there is no difficulty finding areas as wide and long as the tractor (L4610HSTC) and HD brush hog so the tilt of the tractor is approximately equal to the tilt of the brush hog when adjusted correctly. Noting this, I shuld be ablel to affix two large bubble levels, available at the RV store, to the brush hog, one fore and aft and the other athwart it. Similar bubble levels or an equivalency to degrees on the tiltmeter would be required at the tractor.
If I were down at the front of the tractor 3-5 degrees and low on the left 7-10 degrees then I would adjust the brush hog to match +/- any variance I prefered. Why a variance? I have it on the authority of a fellow who put himself through college, brush hogging for hire, that if you run the front lower than the back it will allow a better discharge out the back and sometimes less windrowing. He also told me that some folks claim that running the front higher holds the cut material in longer and it gets mulched better and distributed bette with less windrowing. I suppose these seemingly contradictory comments could both be true depending on what you cut, how high it is, how wet it is, how fast you proceed, and if the brush hog has chains, skirts, or is open for discharge in back.
I find that if you have to get off the tractor over and over and over again to make a manual adjustment it probably won't get done as it should because we tire of repetitively stopping our progress to stand in the sun and fuss with a mechanical adjustment (not just an air conditioned cab comment, plenty of folks have surrey tops and the like.)
Closing observations: Box blading (for me) is greatly improved with tilt. Brush hogging, with tilt, (for me) is somewhat harder due to having to level the machine to match the tractor B U T I expect I can cure that with some levels or some other poster's ingenuity.
Patrick
I have TNT (not the explosive, the hydraulic thingy) I have 3 valves: top, tilt, and aux (for hydraulic scarifier box blade and tilting the cement mixer). Kubota standard stuff, dealer installed, dealer reinstalled under waranty as you gotta have room for female disconnect(mounted to tractor) to float toward tractor when inserting male disconnect (on hydraulic hose) [No giggling in the back of the room!]
I have no problem with raising things quite high with 3ph, e.g. I raise the 6 ft heavy duty brush hog up well past 45 degrees to allow me to back it into trees that are too big to mow over. (It begins eating the smaller part several feet above ground then I lower it over the tree, eating as it goes. WITH N O O N E within hundreds of yards to be endangered by thrown debris!
I can tilt in either direction (not equally but usefully). I suppose since the manually adjustable part that the tilt cylinder replaced was moved to the left side (other side) by the dealer, the mech thought it was a good idea. It is set to one end of its travel and I haven't adjusted it otherwise, YET. Maybe I should move it about midway (not the island) uh halfway in its travel and see if that equalizes my bi-directional tilt. I like the way it tilts really high in the one direction as it allows me to make a fair ditch in a few passes. I have no argument against folks with a cylinder on each side, sounds groovy and likely they could be hooked up opposite to each other and only require a single hydraulic control valve. I just don't like the idea enough to spend the resources to do it unless I become frustrated with my current setup which is "STOCK KUBOTA" and works just fine.
Leveling my brush hog has been a challenge as apparently my judgement/depth perception, irrespective of my success flying, racing, etc where you need depth perception and judgement, isn't working as well as it should or I need a tutor or a mechanical assist. I tried to use the brush hog for a plow, not on purpose but it just turned out that way, still I don't blame the tilt just the loose nut on the control lever, me. In general my land is not flat or level but there is no difficulty finding areas as wide and long as the tractor (L4610HSTC) and HD brush hog so the tilt of the tractor is approximately equal to the tilt of the brush hog when adjusted correctly. Noting this, I shuld be ablel to affix two large bubble levels, available at the RV store, to the brush hog, one fore and aft and the other athwart it. Similar bubble levels or an equivalency to degrees on the tiltmeter would be required at the tractor.
If I were down at the front of the tractor 3-5 degrees and low on the left 7-10 degrees then I would adjust the brush hog to match +/- any variance I prefered. Why a variance? I have it on the authority of a fellow who put himself through college, brush hogging for hire, that if you run the front lower than the back it will allow a better discharge out the back and sometimes less windrowing. He also told me that some folks claim that running the front higher holds the cut material in longer and it gets mulched better and distributed bette with less windrowing. I suppose these seemingly contradictory comments could both be true depending on what you cut, how high it is, how wet it is, how fast you proceed, and if the brush hog has chains, skirts, or is open for discharge in back.
I find that if you have to get off the tractor over and over and over again to make a manual adjustment it probably won't get done as it should because we tire of repetitively stopping our progress to stand in the sun and fuss with a mechanical adjustment (not just an air conditioned cab comment, plenty of folks have surrey tops and the like.)
Closing observations: Box blading (for me) is greatly improved with tilt. Brush hogging, with tilt, (for me) is somewhat harder due to having to level the machine to match the tractor B U T I expect I can cure that with some levels or some other poster's ingenuity.
Patrick