Why is there no thread with actual pricing of say, different compact tractors

[davitk]

I would just start a TBN thread and ask for prices paid for the tractor you're looking at or similar ones.
....................................................................................

I would not do that here because I would just get same clown saying..."RESEARCH YOURSELF:

NO THANKS

Funny. I have had approximately 99% positve experiences here on TBN; the negative I do believe I brought on myself

Very valuable forum. I am teaching real world tractor operators things I've learned here that they had no clue about. Very friendly bunch of guys (and a few gals) here.

 

[bjcsc]

Ditto. At the risk of being called a "clown" again , there are few straight comparisons in the tractor world. Each brand has its own features and slight differences that make many models "apples to oranges". Some of these are more/less important to specific people and thus the value follows.

MSRP is a gauge. If you compare the MSRP of similar tractors across brands you can get a general idea of where they will fall - relative to one another.

My comment on dealers was misunderstood. If dealer for Brand A gives you a price a couple thousand dollars lower for a similar tractor that dealer for Brand B has given you, the service you get from them (and expect to get from them) should absolutely factor into your decision.

The irony of your post is that this forum is all information supplied by members. You're a member. Why don't you get a list together and start the thread? I'll be watching for it...

 

[Mike058]

I feel your pain. It would be nice to have a list of the MSRPs in one spot. But, like you suggested, it would be really time consuming to maintain. I doubt anybody would have the energy to keep it up. It would be really neat to list the special financing deals available too because that greatly affects the price.

You were trying to figure out if the price you paid was reasonable or not. I'm sorry you didn't find out what you wanted. Looks like everybody got caught up in the afterglow of the purchase. Were you unable to find out what the MSRP of the 3005 was? If you could, 10-15% less would be a good price. If his price was $1000 less than other quotes, I'd say that was a good price. Pricing is very regional. It would be hard for anybody in the US to have a useful opinion about Canadian pricing. I don't think a lot of people have to deal over the phone with someone 300 miles away usually either. A 300 mile delivery is going to be worth a lot too. There's just a lot of variables.

Anyway, hope the way this thread went didn't really make you want to take your ball and go home. You seem fairly resilient and I'd like to know how you like the 3005 when you get it. If you're really annoying, I can always add you to my ignore list

Would it not be great to have a up to date price comparison list of say all 27-32 hp compact tractors, for example. I surf the dealers and more often than not you have to phone or email for prices. I am only talking about suggested retail prices not actual quotes and dickering etc, JUST SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICES.

Perhaps the reason is just that it would be to time consuming for someone to do this? or is there another reason? For instance I would like to know prices of a Mahindra tractor compared to John Deere 790 4 wd with bucket etc? I am in Canada, but would be able to get the jist of pricing if there was American pricing list here...suggested retail I mean. Am waiting on a 2 day old email request from Mahindra closest dealer, for prices, he`s the only one with a website,has no prices on web but does not answer phone.

Would be nice to have comparison pricing here on a thread, so a person does not have to phone each dealer to find out.

Now on some forums I belong to (satellite) I would add at bottom of post...come tear me a new one

 

[shvl73]

To say "research yourself" quite frankly is offensive and un helpfull.

Are you kidding? offensive?
Never mind that the poster didn't just say "research yourself", but offensive?!?!
Come on now...

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I've found a number of responses to this post to be very interesting. To the "dealers" who seem to be saying it would be too complicated, wouldn't take into account programs and discounts etc.

What if tractor dealers had to post MSRP sticker prices just like the automobile dealers?

Maybe that would help to level the playing field and take at least some of the hocus pocus out of trying to determine a price. Yes we all know that hardly anyone pays MSRP, but a common starting point would still be a good start. You can go to gm.com or deere.com and use the "build your own" configurator and come up with a price for almost anything including most options.

I've since purchased, but during research I used the Deerre configurator. I could find no such tool for any of the other brands. In fact, some dealers are apparently prohibited from even advertising prices.

I received printed computerized pricing - good for 30 days - from two JD stores.

One MF dealer looked in a little pocket notebook and told me "it would be about $20,000.

One MF dealer provided printed computerized quotes, similar to JD

One Kubota dealer wrote a price on the back of a brochure.

One Kubota salesman was talking to me, another person came along and asked a question and the salesman just started talking to the other guy and ignored me. I walked out and called the GM and told him they would never sell anything to me.

One Kioti dealer just gave me a brochure and told me it would probably be around $20,000. Another Kioti dealer just gave me a verbal price for a unit sitting on his lot.

There seem to be too many stores out there who act like you are bothering them, who seem to think they are doing you a major favor by providing information or by selling you a product. Except in rare circumstances, I usually return the favor by not bothering them again.

 

[Flutie Fanatic]

Thank you to all seriously!!!


I got a cal from the Canadian Mahindra dealer, he could not come close to the JD 3005.

Thanks to EVERY SINGLE PERSON that replied I was out of line in a couple of my remarks.

I belong to quite a few satellite forums, I do it myself, great hobby! Someone said read more research more. Ever since then I try not to ask questions unless I am really stumped(which is never anymore) I guess thanks to the first guy that said, fellow research and read.

So I was a bit paranoid even before I posted this that someone would say that...several posters said to research and thats good advice.

I googled for Canadian forum but not found yet.

...........................................

All I really wanted to know was GENERALLY SPEAKING are there not cheaper tractors then John Deere and the top brands..suprisingly you guys/ most did not know??? I found that interesting

Thanks again

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

I googled for Canadian forum but not found yet.

...........................................

All I really wanted to know was GENERALLY SPEAKING are there not cheaper tractors then John Deere and the top brands..suprisingly you guys/ most did not know??? I found that interesting

Scroll to the bottom of the TBN Forum Index. There is a "Canada Forum" there.

Within the Case / NH, MF/ Agco, JD, Kubota, Kioti grouping it seemed to me, when I was looking, there was a significant degree of MSRP price similarity when comparing models with capabilities / options as close as possible. Willingness of dealers to discount varied quite a bit. Without being too cynical it reminds me of gasoline pricing. Everyone claims complete independence and competitive pricing - but the prices are still much the same.

I didn't pay much attention to Mahindra, since the dealer was not close and the phone pricing I got was more than JD, Kubota etc.

The Chinese and / or no name crate tractors were cheap but of no interest to me after I looked at a couple of them.

 

[Flutie Fanatic]

tHANKS

 

[RFB]

CinderSchnauzer,

Its not cynical, its reality.

Just like the reality of economics; one always gets only what one pays for.

Some are willing to pay more for a tractor for a nebulous thought of getting better service. They are investing more up front, hoping that their "stock" will increase and pay dividends when needed.

I want the best price on the tractor, and I will pay for service ala carte.

If the service is owed me as part of a warranty contract, I expect to get what I am owed and nothing more.

 

[bake321]

CinderSchnauzer and RFB both make good points. Heck I can go to the Harley Davidson site and get MSRP, and I also don't need a warm relationship with my dealer. It would be in thier best interest, not mine, to establish one. There is another poster on this site that I admire who was just royaly shafted by his beloved dealer. I've bought hay from the same grower for ten years, when I stopped in last week I was informed that they no longer will be selling to the general public. Seems a broker will buy all that they can produce. Oh, but that is business. Don't get me wrong I still appreaciate a good two way business relationship, but more and more in this day and age get your best deal and demand what is right.

 

[RFB]

Customers are the principal reason that this trend exists; customers tolerate it.

The very fact that untold millions of $ are spent per year in advertising should speak volumes to sentient customers. They want your business and are willing to pay to get it, because in the end, they profit.

It is odd to hear that a customer base tolerates instead of giving their business, getting the business, and often in the end.

When customers insist or walk, they exert the power of the market place, and it is substantial leverage.

Word of mouth is extremely important. "I got the best price at XYZ" from a satisfied customer" or "Their service technicians are inept and overpriced" from a dissatisfied one speaks louder than a billboard.

 

[canoetrpr]

Flutie_fanatic:

Welcome to the forum. Fill out your profile so we know where you are. I've researched my part of Southern Ontario for brands and dealers and prices and could help with what I've found.

I agree with you a 100% on the lack of MSRP pricing. I think this is just a result of the fact that the CUT business is about 20 years behind the times IMHO. A strong web presence with a configuration tool that allows a customer to build their tractor and figure out the MSRP of exactly what they want is what customers desire. No different from any other big ticket purchase like a car of a truck.

The web is a great marketing tool. I think that most tractor companies would prefer that it didn't exist. You will also find that their attitude towards the web is also generally behind the times. There are astute and helpful individual dealers who 'get it' like Messick (Kubota) and Wallace (Kioti) to name a few. The brands themselves wish to think that they can still control information they way they used to 30 years ago.

When there is a Canadian satellite (like Kubota Canada), I have found that it is 10 years behind the US counterpart in accepting that buyers can communicate with each other over the internet, discuss issues - service bulleitens and the like.

It is all fairly normal in my opinion. It takes time for businesses to accept new technology and new means of communication and marketing.

I don't buy the argument that there are so many programs and so much difference between local pricing that there is no point in posting MSRP. MSRP is MSRP. As a customer you can get a pretty good idea of what you would pay for a machine by discounting 10 or so % off it - give or take, allowing for various between regions and seasonal discounts.

Its all about control of information. Most tractor companies just have not figured out that they really can't control information like they used to - be it pricing, discounting, service bulleitens and so on.

 

[MACDABS]

The points you make about dealers , and price rules not service is very sad.
Owning two different types of service business I see the loss of what I call customer loyalty . I have seen this trickle down to the younger employees we employee and how they represent our company with the same me only attitude.
This is not how I wish to represent my service company or the way it was founded in 1954. I think the dealers on this forum and the manufactuers that compete for the market share know service and quality will always win. The big three major tractor suppliers can sell cheaper than anyone,but the level of service is what will keep them in the game.

Would you shop for the doctor with the best price?

Macdabs

 

[canoetrpr]

The whole business of dealer vs. price is not black and white. In an ideal world one would want a great tractor, low price, best dealer when it comes to service and so on.

Some of the problem is how do you REALLY tell how good your dealer is going to be come service time (heck come delivery time!) based on the sales experience? Its actually pretty tough.

I thought I had a great sales experience only to find out that the dealer really lacked attention to detail and manners. I won't deal with them for service.

Also, how much should one expect to pay extra for the same goods for a dealer that is supposedly better than another? I might pay $500 to $800 on a big ticket purchase extra to deal with them. Beyond that, it starts getting questionable.

 

[bake321]

Macdabs

I think that you may have the cart before the horse. It is precisely because service has declined so much that I have come to thinking the way that I do. I am 59 years old and would be considered in the upper level of income. I still do my own wrenching, why, it makes me sick when i pay good money for a bad job. How about walking into a parts place and the common answer is we don't have it, but we can order it. Well so can I and I can usually save money and avoid a 30+ mile trip because it will be delivered to my front door. I had to fire the contractor that was building my house and finish it myself due to the bad workmanship.Your implication that your customer base has deteriated your technicians attitude is a tough one to swallow. Maybe it's different where you live.

Bake

 

[ray66v]

My Dealer, really great guy, has a very impressive facility which includes a 1m+ dollar service dept. which I received a tour of as part of my sales presentation.
As I walked through, I explained how I prefer to do my own service as, I know then, the work is done to my satisfaction. I was then given assurances that they have an award winning service department, and asked to give them a chance to prove them selfs. They then proceeded to botch the prep of my new tractor, and later when I had a hydraulic leak, repaired it and returned it with a bigger leak than the one they fixed.
Good thing I paid more to be able to take advantage of the special experience of having him on my team. So far if has really paid off.

 

[davitk]

Would you shop for the doctor with the best price?

Macdabs

I agree. I also provide a professional service myself (certainly not a physician, however ), and I cost a good 50% more than some of the competition, not because I provide a superior product but because I am such a nice guy . I chose my dealer for the same reason my customers choose me - friendly, knowledgable and a terrific reputation. I am willing to pay more for that because for that "good guy" dealer to stay in business, he has to make a profit. Maybe times are changing, but I firmly believe in the importance of relationships and loyalty.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Would you shop for the doctor with the best price?

Macdabs

I think this represents a specious comparison. The selection of a physician includes a component of skill and knowledge, which in theory, is measurable and can be differrentiated from one to the other. It's quite possible there could be a relationship between skill and price in the case of a surgeon - so there could be an argument for seaching out a higher price.

The JD tractor I will recieve from store A, B, C is identical - therefore, price comparison is completely valid. If I wish to pay a premium for realor perceived better service or to support the local economy those are also valid decisions. Having a common known and readily available starting point, such as posted MSRP would be a major step to allow consumers to make informed choices.

 

[RFB]

bake321,

Same sitstat re "...we don't have it".

I go to the Orange parts counter and ask for SUDT:
"Whats that?"
I explain.
"Why do you want that"
I explain.
"You don't need that stuff, nobody around here uses it, and we don't have any".

Your imagination of my thoughts are better than my words here could be.

Ray66v,

Prior to and while specifying my purchase of a tractor, I was told "no one makes a backhoe for a 5030 with a cab". I asked about Rhino-Servis: "Who's that".

I contacted Rhino on my own and set up the purchase.

On delivery of a Curtis snowplow, I specifically instructed the dealer that I wanted to ensure power angle capability (3rd function at the FEL), in addition to lift and curl. Their answer upon delivery "Well let's see, just set the curl and change hoses for your power angle."

I self-purchased the WR Long system.

davitk,

Service is a commodity like any other. If I need a surgeon for instance, I do not select a personality; I want effectiveness. I could care less if the MD has the demeanor of a sour owl biscuit as long as he is good with a knife.
My loyalty is for my wife, my children and my friends. Everything else is business, straight up without a chaser.

 

[davitk]

lets see... RFB, if I make a service call to your house and have wet or muddy, shoes, they come off at the door or get covered. The meat head from who-gives-a-shop comes along and sets up his miter box on your wife's dresser to cut the window trim. Who is more effecient and costs less? Think about it.