Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[hiddentacocatneddih]

I have an old 94 f350 with a small block v8. It tows OK but I bet it will out last any eco boost.....

 

[Renze]

There’s a lot more to an engine than paper hp/tq ratings. A lot more.

Thats what i am trying to say the entire time. I even gave examples of the B6.7 light duty pickup truck rating (420hp) medium duty truck rating (325hp) and then for industrial use, restricted rating (326 hp) intermittent rating (310 hp) and continous duty rating (232 hp)

For industrial diesel engines, pickup truck is concidered light duty, so Cummins allows a much higher piston speed (=wear) than in industrial applications: But still less than 2/3 of the piston speed of any existing gas engine. Unless it was a Cummins Westport natural gas engine, but these dont make the power a Diesel does)

 

[Hay Dude]

The old and tired saying “there’s no replacement for displacement” is well, old & tired.
However, it is true.

What it really means is there’s no replacement for “weight & rotating mass”.

Whenever I see guys comparing a small gas engine to a larger displacement diesel engine with lower output ratings on paper, I know I am reading the opinions of someone who doesn’t actually work an engine hard every day.

Put an ecoboost in a 33,000lb dump truck or a mid size farm tractor.
It will have more HP by a lot, but it won’t last a year.

 

[Renze]

Whenever I see guys comparing a small gas engine to a larger displacement diesel engine with lower output ratings on paper, I know I am reading the opinions of someone Whenever I see guys comparing a small gas engine to a larger displacement diesel engine with lower output ratings on paper, I know I am reading the opinions of someone who doesn’t actually work an engine hard every day.

The gas engine crowd doesnt understand that, but the hotshot diesel guys dont understand that we had customers wear out a 5.9 at 185hp rating, within 8000hrs... (while a 155hp 5.9 in a smaller model often lasts 20.000hrs)

Duty cycles between applications, and the thermal limits of different engines which, when exceeded, greatly accelerate wear, differ that much.

 

[K5lwq]

I must have missed the post where someone said a Ecoboost can last in a 33,000 lb dump truck. I thought it was about a 3/4 ton pickup.

All I can go off of is my experience as far as reliability of the Ecoboost. I have a fleet of vehicles that see a lot of miles. The first Ecoboost we put in service was a 2013 3.5. We just sold that truck to an employee for his daily driver. It had 372,000 on it when it sold. No major engine work at all.

My last truck was a 2018 with 3.5 Ecoboost and had 230,000 when I decided to get rid of it. On that one the timing chain needed to be replaced but I elected to get a new truck rather than fix it because I felt at that moment I had the lowest cost per mile that the truck would see.

We now have 18 Ecoboosts in our fleet. 3 are the 3.5 and the rest are the 2.7. Several of the 2.7 have over 100,000 now with no issues. Time will tell I guess but I will continue down the Ecoboost road until I see a problem with them.

 

[3930dave]

We now have 18 Ecoboosts in our fleet. 3 are the 3.5 and the rest are the 2.7. Several of the 2.7 have over 100,000 now with no issues. Time will tell I guess but I will continue down the Ecoboost road until I see a problem with them.

Data. We like data .

On thread topic (Superduty use), how is this Fleet used ?

Heavy duty towing, significant payload, major hours of idle time @ roadside, (up here, plowing snow) etc.....

(Asking , not being argumentative.....).

Rgds, D.

 

[K5lwq]

Data. We like data .

On thread topic (Superduty use), how is this Fleet used ?

Heavy duty towing, significant payload, major hours of idle time @ roadside, (up here, plowing snow) etc.....

(Asking , not being argumentative.....).

Rgds, D.

Mostly HWY and city driving. A few like me pull trailers. I pulled a 18ft enclosed quite a bit with mine. Several trips to Florida, South Dakota and Kentucky. A lot of places in Texas and neighboring states. More miles without towing for sure.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

You apparently have never driven a 3.5L EB engine.

You are dead wrong with your above statement.

The little EB makes peak TORQUE at extremely LOW rpm & no need to rev its guts out like the much bigger V8 Requires.

The 3.5L pulls way harder under 2k rpm than our old V10 ever could at 5k rpm.

I’m not arguing HP, which is faster or which will outlast.

The 3.5L EB @ 2k rpm & Less will outpull any naturally aspirated V8 out there at this same rpm.

& again I’m not saying the F150 will handle the load, control the sway or even stop a heavy load better than a 6.2 / 7.3 super duty

I HATE having to rev a V8 / V10 gas engines guts out just to maintain speed.

Now IF FoMoCo would twin turbo the 6.2 or 7.3 gasser : they’d have a BEAST that would flat work & sell.

I have about as much use for a half ton pickup as I would a bicycle with square wheels.

Not arguing here either.

If the same twitiot that programmed the shift points on the gas V8 transmission, also programmed the transmission on your dream machine, then yes, as soon as you hook a *real* load to that thing, the transmission will be downshifting at every possible instance. Only thing Ford did to help that (in the gas V8 trucks) was at least they put a "Manual Mode" in the shift controller. That saves the day, and you don't have to suffer through just driving around in "D".

Driving in "Manual Mode", there is NO reason for revving and screaming the engine. You can hold the gear manually, long after the POS transmission controller would have downshifted you a gear, or even two gears.

 

[3930dave]

Mostly HWY and city driving. A few like me pull trailers. I pulled a 18ft enclosed quite a bit with mine. Several trips to Florida, South Dakota and Kentucky. A lot of places in Texas and neighboring states. More miles without towing for sure.

OK, so more/mostly like how people use an F150.

For the savvy customer, who would want a 3.5EB in a heavier Superduty chassis, it might be a good fit.....

Here is the problem that I see for Ford, re. the Superduty brand....... Commercial fleet, severe use........ The 18 y/o (and some 38 and 58 y/o guys) who is used to using a 6.7D fully loaded for towing etc, is NOT going to change what he is doing at all when he hops into a 3.5EB Superduty.

Accelerated life testing (I'll get back to that....) that will ensue on that 3.5EB....... when it is constantly stressed at or above its thermal limit, IF there is a failure, who is going to get blamed ?

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I must have missed the post where someone said a Ecoboost can last in a 33,000 lb dump truck. I thought it was about a 3/4 ton pickup.

Accelerated life testing. It's how you'd get data to compare to the real-world 30 year working lives mentioned for down-rated old school diesels...

Few of us have the time/resources/$ to try that experiment, but that bit of hyperbole underlines the point of contrasting actual use, vs. #'s on paper, IMO.....

The point in somebody's recent post (cartopper on an Escape) hints at how a small change in use-case can have a big impact on engine/drivetrain stresses..... (I've often said that many mini-vans here lead much harder lives (payload, towing) than a lot of babied pickup trucks.... and I'm not joking at all.....).

Accelerated Life Testing..... simple example (that you wouldn't likely see down your way) from the Frozen Nord....... Oil lines on 3.5 EB: add lots of Winter Salt; I've seen turbo oil lines fail (Explorer, NON-police use) @ significantly under 10 years. Those (and other) lines get stressed two ways - accelerated external corrosion, combined with thickened oil @ Winter temps up here.

So, a failure like that that takes less than 10 years up here might take 30+ years down in TX, or just never happen at all.

Manufacturers do Destructive Testing to understand the absolute failure limits of a design. Accelerated Life testing may seem unrealistic or irrelevant at first glance, but often it is yielding data for use-cases that you just never encounter personally, or even consider.....

How a vehicle A/C system performs/lasts at 110 F ambient doesn't concern me, but is obviously relevant down your way .

Rgds, D.