Why no Ecoboost in the F250?

[deezler]

Gas wont tow heavy with a diesel. Not even close. And the fuel mileage will suck down more gas to the point where the gas cost advantage is lost.
For me, it’s all about towing, and there aint a gas truck in existence that will tow over 40,000lbs weekly.
I’m left with the obvious choice. Diesel power.
Look at GCWR’s on diesel compared to gas along with fuel economy. It’s not even a contest. Diesel engine lives a lot longer life than gas when used to it’s max capabilities.

Gas trucks were used in heavy trucks long ago. Mercifully, they are gone. There’s a reason for that.

Lol I was waiting for you to chime in here. Obviously you two huge loads and need a diesel for competent towing.

My statements were aimed at the clear majority of diesel 2500 purchasers who only occasionally tow a small tractor, light boat, or normal sized camper (IE under the rough threshold of ~12,000 lbs towing that I arbitrarily set). Such tasks can easily be done by a modern gas v8 that gets the same fuel economy in unloaded daily driving, and truly only a smidge worse when towing, for far cheaper operating costs and more reliable with less maintenance cost.

 

[deezler]

I've had my 6.2 Ford for 10 years now. I'd like to know how your neighbor is getting 14 mpg, unless he's being towed behind another truck.

I think my "better" average unloaded is 12.5 mpg. And that's driving it like there's a raw egg on the gas pedal and I don't want to break it.

Don't get me wrong, I love my truck. But it is what it is, and 14 mpg 'aint it.

Well, how hard have you tried?

My truck's powertrain has the same story - most people with an LQ4 report getting 11-12 mpg no matter what they do - but my own truck easily gets 14-15 in daily driving. It comes down to the details, and you gotta check them all and add them all up to improve your mpg consistently.

• Tires - you running chunky all terrains? Don't. Michelin LTX tires have loads of traction for mud or snow, but get demonstrably better mpg on the road - LRR = low rolling resistance
• Aerodynamics - do you have a ladder rack, front bug deflector on the hood, or any other silly stuff catching air like a parachute? Do you have a basic tonneau cover that you keep closed when not hauling bulky stuff in the bed? If not, do it! Tonneau covers help a lot; my nice roll up Access-vanish was only $270, keeps the bed dry, looks slick, perfectly reliable for 6 years now.
• Front air dam - many HD pickups omit this crucial aerodynamic feature, or guys rip them off themselves for whatever reason. Don't. Sending airflow around the truck instead of under it helps a ton with mpgs. I made one for my truck out of lawn edging, it helped noticeably.
• Engine maintenance - keep your oil changed on time with fresh synthetic, clean air filter, fresh spark plugs/coils, etc
• Vehicle alignment - this one is kinda sneaky. But get an alignment recently? If not, do it. Request zero toe-in, for optimal mpg.
• Driving style - COAST, COAST, COAST. No, don't be blocking traffic. But generally: accelerate briskly, then pretend there's an egg under the pedal once you're up to speed. Look way down the road ahead of you to anticipate and avoid unnecessary slow downs, and try to get into DFCO (deceleration fuel cut-off) when coasting down to a red light. I try to use my brakes as little as possible.

Lotta guys don't think aerodynamics matter on a bulky HD pickup, but they really still do. Go with the small side mirrors and add on towing mirror extensions only when needed. Pull the big long radio antenna if you don't need long-distance reception. Cover the bed with a tonneau. Don't hang a big tow hitch/ball down into the air flow behind you if not towing every day. I could go on and on - the details add up and you can probably save 20% on your fuel bill if you want to.

Also, that other dude might just trust his dashboard mpg display and never actually check it at the pump, LOL.

 

[5030]

All that and I get 40 mpg.... sheesh.

 

[Renze]

Because there’s no replacement for displacement. Sure little engines can make a lot of power but not for long term.

Metallurgy is a replacement for displacement. The first small block V8s of the 50s put out about 120hp, and dont live as long as a four banger 2.3 liter engine of the 90s, putting out the same power but doing 300.000 miles.

 

[Renze]

I'd hate to see an EcoBoost motor in an F250 superduty truck.

Perhaps the current generation of EcoBoost is built to light duty specifications, targeted at half ton trucks that more often run light loads: Because a gas engine at partial load, is wasting power by sucking air through a throttle valve that restricts air, and thus fuel intake to maintain the correct air/fuel mixture, using a smaller displacement engine to lower throttle vacuum, whilst using the turbo to increase air intake when power is needed, makes a lot of sense.


So, even if the EB is designed as a lighter duty engine with light load efficiency, with turbo power to spare for the occasional tow, this does not mean that the concept of downsized turbocharged engines is unsuitable for heavier duty:

A Diesel engine in a big rig, still puts out about 40hp per liter, with double the combustion pressure, governed at a max speed about 1/3 of a typical truck V8 gasser. Had you run the 13 liter truck engine at 6200rpm, its output would be 3 times as high: or 120hp per liter which is more than any gasser.

So, big rig diesels have more output per liter per revolution, because they use more advanced materials.

Another issue is that a gas engine is less efficient and therefor has to dissipate more heat than a diesel. Heat causes wear and tear on components.

 

[timswi]

I've had my 6.2 Ford for 10 years now. I'd like to know how your neighbor is getting 14 mpg, unless he's being towed behind another truck.

I think my "better" average unloaded is 12.5 mpg. And that's driving it like there's a raw egg on the gas pedal and I don't want to break it.

Don't get me wrong, I love my truck. But it is what it is, and 14 mpg 'aint it.

The 14mpg is running on the interstate, left that part out--Around town I'm sure it's around 12 or so.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I've had my 6.2 Ford for 10 years now. I'd like to know how your neighbor is getting 14 mpg, unless he's being towed behind another truck.

I think my "better" average unloaded is 12.5 mpg. And that's driving it like there's a raw egg on the gas pedal and I don't want to break it.

Don't get me wrong, I love my truck. But it is what it is, and 14 mpg 'aint it.

I had a company truck that was a 2010 or 2011 F-250 4x4 with a 6.2 gas engine and it was 11-12 no matter how you cut the cards on in town driving, but to my surprise on interstate trips running 75 + mph it would get between 17 & 18 everytime and that was hand calculated, but the DIC computer would always be within a tenth or two of hand calculation. I am not a Ford man and all my personal vehicles are GM so I have no reason to stretch the truth, but that was my experience with one Ford F-250 with a 6.2 gas engine.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

An I6 motor is stronger than a V8 motor for the main reason every piston rod is supported with bearing on both sides. An I6 motor will produce better torque than a V8 and the I6 is self balancing. It’s not by accident that virtually every industrial motor is inline.

So, what diesel engine design do the CAT D10's and D11's have in them??

SR

 

[dieselcrawler]

Perhaps the current generation of EcoBoost is built to light duty specifications, targeted at half ton trucks that more often run light loads: Because a gas engine at partial load, is wasting power by sucking air through a throttle valve that restricts air, and thus fuel intake to maintain the correct air/fuel mixture, using a smaller displacement engine to lower throttle vacuum, whilst using the turbo to increase air intake when power is needed, makes a lot of sense.


So, even if the EB is designed as a lighter duty engine with light load efficiency, with turbo power to spare for the occasional tow, this does not mean that the concept of downsized turbocharged engines is unsuitable for heavier duty:

A Diesel engine in a big rig, still puts out about 40hp per liter, with double the combustion pressure, governed at a max speed about 1/3 of a typical truck V8 gasser. Had you run the 13 liter truck engine at 6200rpm, its output would be 3 times as high: or 120hp per liter which is more than any gasser.

So, big rig diesels have more output per liter per revolution, because they use more advanced materials.

Another issue is that a gas engine is less efficient and therefor has to dissipate more heat than a diesel. Heat causes wear and tear on components.

Excellent explanation of the gas vs diesel power outputs.

I'm a fan of diesel, but not opposed to bettering gas motors and fully believe that a turbo version of the 6.2L gas V8 would be an excellent option for the superduty platform. A EcoBoost big brother, if you will. Anything to up the torque, and lessen the downshifts at highway speeds that yield insane rpms... that was what turned me off to my 6.2L gasser. Still have it, wife drives it. I prefer my 6.0L diesel with manual trans. We will keep the 6.2L so she can comfortably hook up the GN horse trailer, load horses and kids, and go riding. Myself, I'll have my 6.0L ready to go if I'm driving or hauling heavy, it gets better fuel mileage towing than the 6.2L does empty, and 16-17mpg empty in mixed driving.

 

[4570Man]

So, what diesel engine design do the CAT D10's and D11's have in them??

SR

I think some of the really big equipment has V12s. I’ve never been around anything that big. The vast majority of cat equipment has I6 engines.