Why so hard to replace battery?

[5030]

I don't pay much attention to what the label says the brand is as 99% of the batteries sold here are made by 2 companies, Johnson Controls and East Penn Battery. The other 1% are made by Crown Battery. What I look for is the age of the battery. Flooded cell batteries begin their lifetime when they are filled with electrolyte so the older it is (sitting on the shelf), the less time it has a viable life.

I buy all my flooded cell batteries from volume dealers like heavy duty truck shops or discount auto parts places because they have a high volume turnover.

Brand means nothing in reality.

 

[Grumpycat]

When I renew a battery (which I do every 5 years no matter what), on the first renewal, I look at CCA as well as the largest physical size of battery that will fit in the battery box or tray (in my case) and finally terminal post location (as my cables allow for extra room).

The higher the CCA, the more lead alloy inside the case (and the heavier it is).

Not necessarily. Better to shop for "reserve capacity", "Amp-hours" or "Watt-hours". CCA is largely a measure of internal resistance. The less resistance the more current will dump. Is not a measure of how long you can leave the headlights on before the engine will not start.

Lithium starter battery replacements boast outrageous CCA. Really have outrageous CCA. Have very low internal resistance. But also have about 25% of the Ah of a FLA with similar CCA.

Reserve Capacity is time at 25A draw above 10.5V.

In FLA is interesting to compare CCA and RC of Groups 24, 34, 35, and 25.

At OReilly Auto the Super Start Extreme:
Group 24, CCA 725, RC 120 minutes
Group 34, CCA 800, RC 115 minutes
Group 35, CCA 640, RC 95 minutes
Group 25, CCA 625, RC 95 minutes

Note how Group 34 has more CCA but less RC than Group 24. Is my observation this is true across all brands.

 

[Grumpycat]

I don't pay much attention to what the label says the brand is as 99% of the batteries sold here are made by 2 companies, Johnson Controls and East Penn Battery. The other 1% are made by Crown Battery. What I look for is the age of the battery. Flooded cell batteries begin their lifetime when they are filled with electrolyte so the older it is (sitting on the shelf), the less time it has a viable life.

I buy all my flooded cell batteries from volume dealers like heavy duty truck shops or discount auto parts places because they have a high volume turnover.

Brand means nothing in reality.

Brand means everything. Because there are so few manufacturers those manufacturers are well practiced in "built to price". If a brand wants to be the low price leader then the manufacturers have no qualms in building poor quality cheap batteries for that brand. If they did not then someone in China will.

Manufacturers do not warranty the battery, brands do. Some brands are harder to collect on the warranty than others.

Just because all the seams and **** on the battery casing is identical is no assurance the plates inside are the same design or even the same alloy.

 

[SmallChange]

Because there are so few manufacturers those manufacturers are well practiced in "built to price".

Grumpycat's right. Coming from the same place doesn't mean equally good. We can cook a fantastic Thanksgiving dinner in our kitchen, or we can reheat slop in it. There's something kind of sad about a manufacturer turning out junk because the people reselling it want it that way to get to the bottom price, but there's nothing actually wrong or illegal with it.

The point of a brand is that somebody is standing behind the quality and establishing their reputation by it, whether good or bad.

I don't know about batteries in particular -- this is just a thing about maker versus brand.

 

[rScotty]

The first time I replace a battery in any machine I expect to keep, I try to rework the battery mounting and cables so that it can use a standard Group 24 battery.
Always choose AGM. Wet cell batteries are a perpetual maintenance problem whose only advantage is that they are initially less expensive.

 

[Grumpycat]

I prefer AGM but when faced with replacing the Group 25 in Subaru Outback I found it curious that brands which have FLA and AGM never listed the AGM as being suitable for my Subaru. You'd think they would be happy to upsell but for some reason they didn't. Brands which have only AGM were happy to say their battery was suitable.

Ford uses a different battery algorithm for FLA vs AGM. Codeable by the dealer, with Forscan, or other tools. For some reason Ford thinks they need to know if the battery is FLA or AGM, and whether H6, H7, or H8 in capacity, to do the best job keeping the battery healthy. Knowing this and how brands with both FLA and AGM were not listing AGM for the Subaru, I put a Group 24 FLA in the Subaru.

Too lazy to look up the sizes again but I did take the battery tray out of the Subaru to measure before upsizing from 25 to 24. More than enough room, maybe go even bigger but didn't see the need.

 

[rScotty]

I prefer AGM but when faced with replacing the Group 25 in Subaru Outback I found it curious that brands which have FLA and AGM never listed the AGM as being suitable for my Subaru. You'd think they would be happy to upsell but for some reason they didn't. Brands which have only AGM were happy to say their battery was suitable.

Ford uses a different battery algorithm for FLA vs AGM. Codeable by the dealer, with Forscan, or other tools. For some reason Ford thinks they need to know if the battery is FLA or AGM, and whether H6, H7, or H8 in capacity, to do the best job keeping the battery healthy. Knowing this and how brands with both FLA and AGM were not listing AGM for the Subaru, I put a Group 24 FLA in the Subaru.

Too lazy to look up the sizes again but I did take the battery tray out of the Subaru to measure before upsizing from 25 to 24. More than enough room, maybe go even bigger but didn't see the need.

Yes, there's a lot of politics and advertising BS in batteries. The FLA (flooded cell acid) and AGM (paste acid) are essentially interchangeable. The lead/acid chemistries are identical and the chemistry rules. And yes, because of the physical difference between the two there is a slight difference in the most efficient charging slopes between the two. Not much, in the real world it is a few tenths of a volt which means a few minutes difference to reach full charge. But it's enough for advertising to focus on.

The debate centers around the fact that AGMs can be charged most efficiently at just over 14 volts because they don't heat the acid so much. Flooded cell or SLA types are charged at a slightly lower voltage (and longer time) at about 13.5 volts.

Either will work. If you measure the batteries after they set for a few hours since the last charge, either one - if good - will show something close to 12.7 volts.

After all, for many years we only had the old SLA flooded cell types which were charged by a generator/alternator working into a solenoid type voltage regulator. That setup was typically set several volts above where our cars & tractors charge the same battery today. And they worked just fine....other than sometimes overheating the flooded cell acid, needing water added, and always having a wet acid mist from the vents corroding things on top of the battery.