Wierd electrical question...

[jwstewar]

I think your mixing up messages from the original poster, Richard, who opened the circuit breaker, with Dan, the one I was replying to, who said nothing about removing power.

Otherwise, I agree 100% with you, if there is no power is supplied, there will be no power in the circuit. But that's kinda like saying water is wet, we all know that.

Nope, I wasn't mixed up. They said disconnect the mains and don't forget the cable. The poster said he was on sat. If the mains are disconnected, the satellite doesn't have power - or at least shouldn't. I stand by my original comment and to whom is was posted to - you. Because even Dan said

COAX does run to the dish is that somehow powered? Course if it was powered then when Richard drops the main it should not be powered.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Most electricians in our area only drive one ground rod either 6' or 8' which is usually not sufficient, at the power company we drive a minimum of 16' of rod and sometimes that is not enough to get a suitable ground, I would advise anyone to make sure that they have a suitable ground at their metercan, that way if something does happen on the power company side of the metercan ie loss of neutral due to lines being torn down, storms etc you have your own driven ground to fall back on, possibly saving appliances and other things in your home.

 

[biggerten]

Nope, I wasn't mixed up. They said disconnect the mains and don't forget the cable. The poster said he was on sat. If the mains are disconnected, the satellite doesn't have power - or at least shouldn't. I stand by my original comment and to whom is was posted to - you. Because even Dan said

I probably should just let things slide, as we shouldn't need this discussion. Here is Dan's entire post, the post I replied to. He clearly says his satellite dish does not have power running to it. I assure you and Dan that it does, otherwise there'd be a post "Why doesn't my satellite TV work?" from Dan. The power is supplied by the receiver through the coax to the dish, there is no separate power cord. Dan talks about Richard 'dropping the mains', nothing about his own.

My Sat dish does not have power running too it. How would power come from the Sat dish? COAX does run to the dish is that somehow powered? Course if it was powered then when Richard drops the main it should not be powered.

Or does the dish pick up the 12v from the signal?

More Confused Than Usual.
Dan

 

[Inspector507]

The satellite dish should cause a problem.

Yes that was a typo sorry.
The satellite should NOT cause a problem.

 

[Richard]

Are you the only one on the transformer?
Is the entrance cable damaged and causing leakage?
Ground at pole bad transformer lost grd.
Pull meter and check all the connections for corrosion causing leakage.
How close are you to another service or neighbor?
Shut off all of the breakers see if it goes away could be back leakage from defective UPS

I believe the house is on its own transformer with no one else

As for entrance cable damaged and ground at pole... I don't know

how close to neighbor... hmm... 500/700 feet?

No UPS if you mean the kind a PC might be connected into.




General question again... my brother in law came to MY house to test my ground. I think his theory was if the electric company was somehow feeding something back down the neutral or ground (I don't really know WHAT he was suspecting this is just me making it up as I go!)

Anyways, if it was in their system, he felt/hoped it would also show up at my house (2,000 feet away, also on indepenent transformer). When he got to my house he put one meter probe on the copper ground line to the ground and I think the other line was stuck into the ground itself.

It was dark and he was working with his back to me so I am not 100% sure that is what he was metering.

He came up with zero values on me when he was sort of hoping to find the same 12 volts he found at his fathers.

Personally, I'm glad he couldn't replicate it here. I called the power company yesterday and thus far, I've not heard anything back from them. I need to talk to my FIL & see if they contacted him.

What really confuses me and shows my ignorance is how any current could be there with the main breaker shut off.

 

[MikeInEburg]

Was the 12 volts measured AC or DC? Any battery powered widgets in sight? Measured between the water puddle on the floor and earth ground? With mains disconnected, there should be NO ac power on the premesis. If you measure AC anything there really is a hazardous situation.

Mike

 

[kenstrac]

Is the 12v from outside of the water tank to the ground wire?
Is the plumbing system giving you the voltage and not the electrical system?
Ground from telephone tied to plumbing?

 

[LD1]

I would try to isolate the water heater from the electrical box by disconnecting all the wiring at the heater.

Then re-check the heater and the box. This will tell you if it is comming from the plumbing or the wiring. (Assuming you have copper plumbing and not PVC)

 

[biggerten]

Another interesting possiblity. Does your father have a well? My father had to have his pump pulled once because of the insulation on the pump wiring being worn by contact with the well casing. Picture this - every time the pump started, there was a little twisting going on due to the torque. Over time, with many of these tiny twists, the insulation was worn, little by little. This, combined with poor grounding, could energize the plumbing. And it wouldn't neccesarily be a dead short. Just a thought.

 

[mbrule]

I am no electrician, but it sure sounds like the power is coming from the phone to me.

 

[Steve_Miller]

I'll babble here for a few minutes. I had an electrician friend who did a lot of farm work at one time. He had a farmer call him and tell him that his cows would not go near the barn. He took the neutral off the panel and measured between the incoming neutral and the panel grounding rod and measured over 900 volts. He called the power company and they actually found the broken ground at the base of the pole the transformer was on. Come to find out the ground was a plate poured into the concrete pad in the barn thus the transformer on the pole was getting it's ground through the farmer's panel ground and over that distance (something over a thousand feet, the resistance of the wire is high enough to allow a voltage drop) is not a good enough ground for the transformer. The cows obviously knew there was a problem as they are very sensitive to electricity. If the same scenario is happening at your place, I would definitely have the power company investigate as this is a serious shock hazard, not only to you but also to anyone who comes in contact with the grounding of anything in your house, especially if you are standing in the basement in a damp area or outside standing on the ground and touching some object that is grounded to your panel. It may be that your ground rod or plate (as someone mentioned above is not sufficient) is not getting a really good bonding to dissipate the potential on the ground line. I hope this may help, at least let us know if the problem is resolved.

Steve

 

[Richard]

I've not heard anything back so today, I called my father in law & asked if someone had looked into this yet.

Answer was yes. I asked what the deal was...

(remember, he's mid 80's so he was not terribly clear to me and I myself do not understand all this electrical stuff so the bottom line is, I'm 99% sure that what ever "reality" is and what I'm going to say, are probably not totally accurate)

He said the power company came out, verified his 'shocking situation'. As it turned out, they had a problem at one of their poles. He told me their problem was with their neutral wire that it either broke from it's grounding point on the ground or was very loose giving a poor connection.

What ever the exact problem there was, they fixed it the day they came out and measured again.

This is the part that still confuses me...

Seems "they still couldn't get it to read zero, it still had an amp or so when they checked the system"

That is a paraphrase of what he told me.

My brain says if there is a gnats farts worth of any signal showing when the breaker is turned OFF that some kind of issue exists somewhere. Maybe I'm dumber than the chair I'm sitting in but that's my logic.

I certainly am in no position to second guess the power company though. I would like to think safety would be their first concern and if he still had an issue they would have looked further into it.

Regardless... the story seems to be over and it seems it was their neutral line somewhere outside.

 

[SPIKER]

still have a small voltage on the Neutral line is not un-common in rural areas, the main reason is distance from the power companies last ground rod to your ground rod. voltage can be INDUCED very easily into the Neutral line from the power running through the other lines that run with it. the voltage will share the two paths to ground, one path being your house neutral Ground rod & well if they are attached, and the other two being the next closest pole ground rods. They all share the common path to different locations, the current/voltage takes the least path of resistance. with a single volt I would not worry much, if you want to you can add an additional ground rod and or make sure you have a good bond to the well head, this will dissipate the power you see at the water heater. Not sure if there has been a lot of failures of the heating elements on that water heaters as it sounds like it is grounded well electrically and the heater is becoming the ground point back to the waterlines & well head. it may also lead to premature lining failure of the water heater as that small current flows through the heater into the waterlines/well. It maybe that you have somewhat high dissolved minerals in the water there to help make the ground back to the lines more efficient that the ground rod at the meter/panel board. one thing you can also check is to make sure your house ground rod has a good clean connection and then take 5 gallon bucket of water & pour down around the rod. then take a meter reading an hr or so later to see if the voltage has diminished. it probably will not go to "0 volts" but will tell you if the ground rod dirt has lost some of it its conducting properties.

mark

 

[Steve_Miller]

Thanks for the follow-up Richard.

Steve