Will 10 Horsepower actually matter on the same size tractor?

[Martin Roper]

Aside from the difference of 10 hp rating at the PTO, it's 25% less (OR 33% MORE). A person who had used the NX5510 would absolutely notice the difference when using the NX4510. However, if no-one has eaten caviar, or sipped scotch, or chocolate cover strawberries, they don't miss them.
Remember the advise - buy all the tractor you can afford. As the owner, you don't necessarily get the use of the greater capacity, but you'll recover your money with the price you'll get when it's time to sell. And at some time, that tractor will be sold, either by you, or your heirs

Hi all, I wont lie, I am totally new to the tractor world. Very familiar with cars and trucks, not so much on tractors. But, I have been reading articles, posts, and watching videos like crazy for the past 2 months learning what I can as we shop tractors.

Lets take the Kioti NX4510 and NX5510 for example. Both HST. Same basic tractor, 10 more HP. Otherwise between the 2, its larger (wider) tires, and a better 3 pt hitch, thats it I think.

So does 10 Hp matter, say your using a decent sized PTO Snowblower in what the town plows leave behind after a 12" snow fall, is that 10 Hp noticeable?

What about if your just pushing snow around with a pusher box, will the extra HP and TQ help?

Is there other benefits of more HP other than running the PTO?

Have you ever in your 35 or 40 Hp tractor, wished you had 45 or 50 Hp?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions, thank you!

I think going down in power is always more noticeable than going up, having more power tends to be easier on the man and machine until the point it affects the pocket with the fuel used, but usually the extra power makes for more economical running.

 

[lpakiz]

DerpDerp,
My loader stays on all winter when the front blower is mounted.
I remove the forks or bucket, then lift the arms up til I can just walk under them. I have a hydraulic ball valve installed in the “raise” line so I lift the arms, close the valve, relieve the pressure then uncouple the 4 hoses for the loader.
Then I connect the 4 hoses from the blower and the PTO shaft and we’re ready to fight snow in comfort.
Using the loader requires detaching the blower and the hoses, pull the blower away on my dollies, couple up the loader hoses and open the ball valve.
It is clumsy to switch back and forth and if you do that more than 4-5 times a season, I think that will get old fast, but this works for me…..

 

[IndyIan]

Do you have a slip clutch on that RC? Either that or the blades are folding in at rated rpm.

No slip clutch, so I guess the blades could be folding in? It's an agri-ease 5' and only after I bought it did I realize they use the same gear box on the 5 and 6' so the blade speed isn't the highest even run a bit over 540 pto rpm. The blades are pretty heavy duty looking to me and it cuts up dirt pretty good, and there I can feel the blades fold in and out shaking the cutter quite a bit.

 

[finn1]

I’m a little confused. The OP only has three acres, if I read right, and will primarily use the tractor for fork work and snow blowing, with some driveway maintenance.

Fork work is definitely not a high power application. Strictly loader capability and tractor weight. Power just isn’t a factor.

Road maintenance is a similar situation. After a certain point, traction, which is analogous to tractor weight is the most important factor.

Snow blowing can be a power hog. Having said that, my 40hp Kioti CK4010 handles our 300” of annual snowfall quite nicely.

Bush hogging deep grass on 100 acres, or plowing virgin prairie would take massive power, but come on guys, he has three acres.

My recommendation would be that, for the property and work profile he described, he take a look at the slightly smaller DK series, and consider maybe going to one of the middle power ratings on that frame.

My only real issue on my CK 4010 is that the slight hump on the floor is a little unfriendly. A bigger tractor comes with a flat floor on the cab models.

Also, don’t even think about not getting a HST for the type of work the OP described.

 

[paulfun9]

I think it's more important to compare torque than horsepower.

It is but when talking tractors you are most likely talking about the same number + or -

 

[LD1]

It is but when talking tractors you are most likely talking about the same number + or -

But where would one measure torque?

At the engine? Lets say one tractor has 100ft-lbs and another of similar size has 150ft lbs. Is it really better? Transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, PTO gearing....all changes torque. Gearing does not change HP (except for inefficiencies like friction losses).

And torque still has no time element. I dont understand why so many think HP isnt a good number to compare. Horsepower is simply how much torque can be applied in a given time. So if you like torque so much....and hate comparing HP....is it the time element you hate so much?

One HP (think one working horse) is only capable of so much in a given day. But that same horse can generate anywhere for 1ft-lb of torque or 10,000ft lbs of torque. Just depends on how big of a lever or how many pulleys on a snatch block to gain mechanical advantage. But at the end of the day, its still only ONE HP.

 

[finn1]

Not exactly. Diesel engines in industrial equipment are designed to have high “torque rise” as the engine is lugged down from rated speed and load (power). The high torque rise assures that the “bottom doesn’t fall out” as additional load is placed on the implement.

Engines with low torque rise tend to stall in operation.

A common torque rise for turbocharged diesel tractor engines when I started in engine development back in the day was 15%. Naturally aspirated engines were significantly less, and gasoline engines were worse less.

The effect felt by the operator was that when the tractor drawbar load was significantly increased, the turbo tractor would keep moving. Gas tractors would stall, and na Diesels were somewhere in between.

There isn’t much published data for these small tractors, in my search. The owners are relatively unsophisticated as to the relationship between power and torque, and how it affects operation.

It’s a lot easier for marketing to spew power numbers, even though that’s only part of the solution.

By the time I retired, torque numbers had increased significantly, through the adaptation of intercoolers and high pressure fuel systems, but that’s another story.

Most tractors within a given frame size wouldn’t have different gear ratios for different power levels, primarily to keep assembly lines as simple as possible.

 

[rScotty]

On torque rise we should point out that it isn't a matter of which fuel....it makes no difference if it is gas or diesel. Torque characteristics are a function of engine design, not what fuel is used.

Some of the JD two cylinder gas tractors had tremendous torque rise when lugged. Same for some of the other tractors of that era using gas (or LP) industrial engines.

By contrast, our turbocharged Kubota M59 has a wide flat torque response over a wide RPM range, but not much additional torque response to load. I'm guessing that has to do with the EGR emissions tuning.
rScotty

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Does 10 hp matter on the same size race car? There's no replacement for displacement.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Does 10 hp matter on the same size race car? There's no replacement for displacement.

IF you went to a race track and told the drivers, "I can get you 10 more HP every time you race this car", how many would say, "naaaa I don't want it".

SR