Will UAW Strike?

[Gale Hawkins]

Auto suppliers say if the UAW strikes more plants, it could mean the end for many

I expect EV importers are looking at the strike fallouts and potential opportunities.

 

[milkman636]

Plus that time frame was when GM killed off the EV1. That woke up Nissan who has had Lithium ion battery EVs on the road starting in 1997 which was 26 years ago. Elon Musk said if GM had moved the EV1 forward he would have focused more on Mars. GM was helpful by selling Musk the Fremont car factory cheap. China needed EVs in the worst way and that is why the rest of the world is looking to China today as the the world looked to Japan 50 years ago.

My Dad's last stint of working was as a contractor with GM in the 90's when the EV1 was developing and being rolled out. He was in his mid-late 60's at the time and working on their military vehicle programs. I would go out of my way to take him back and forth to work if I was working anywhere nearby. And I remember him specifically pointing them out to me on several occasions while we were on GM property. He surprised me at the time by being a fan of that program. His specialty was heavy vehicle suspensions, brakes, and air systems.

 

[5030]

It’s a sad statement that we are so collectively quick to label hourly people that are making things in America as lazy and literally worth-less.

Not all but some are and I've witnessed that first hand and not just in unionized auto plants but anywhere there is a unionized workforce. My ex BIL made a game out of hiding during his 8 hour shift as a Millright at J&L Steel and was proud of his theft of time when working there. Clown would go to work, sleep for 8 hours and then have a buddy clock him out after 9 so he would get an extra hour of OT every day.

When they went bankrupt, he cried like the baby he was and actually had to work after that because he went to a non union shop. He lasted about 30 days and went on disability. What a tool. Plus, he played Johnny Cash with his lunchbox and stole stuff constantly and was proud of it.

Unions protect the lazy and shiftless workers and are no longer needed today. Collective bargaining is nothing but a vehicle to protect and coddle poor workers who cannot or aren't willing to put in an honest days work for a day's pay.

I'd kike to see Fords, GN and Stellantis declare bankruptcy and reorganize non union and actually lower the new vehicle cost and kick the union to the curb. The main driving cost of new vehicles is the legacy cost and the inefficiency caused by insane union work rules.

Same applies to USPS BTW.

If USPS blew the union out and got rid of them and their insane work rules, they could ACTUALLY lower costs substantially and provide excellent and competitive service, just like UPS and Fed-Ex does.

I know, UPS IS UNION. The difference is, the union at UPS don't run the company. At the PO, it does.

I can post volumes of pages that I've personally experienced delivering steel to unionized auto plants over my almost 40 year career of delivering slit coils and rolled sheet steel to auto plants in and around Michigan, Ohio. Pennsylvania and Indiana and everyone of those plants were UAW represented and that includes unionized mills like US Steel, Inland, Weirton, Warren Consolidated, Republic, Rouge and LTV. Of course most of the domestic mills have folded, went bankrupt or got bought out and the unions are gone now and the reincarnated mills are non union and making money and of course owned by offshore entities, like Acceleor Mittal for instance. AM in Cleveland is still ASW but Mittal rules with an iron hand as in no BS or you are gone.

All I can say is, I was grateful the company I drove for was non union, but paid union scale plus and the health and welfare package was far better as well. Let me just say 35 years ago, I was averaging over 110K a year on straight time with 5 weeks paid vacation, 100% 401 match, company paid Blue Cross, Christmas bonus, birthday bonus and Passover bonus. No union dues either. You worked. if you slacked, you were gone. No one slacked either. Got a brand new conventional Western Star and a new curtainside trailer, every 2 years too. Big Cat and a 13 double over with every option.

I retired at 56 and went to work for them part time. Fully retired at 60 and been retired since. No union dues, no BS either.

What a great job and I appreciated it as did all the other 56 drivers.

 

[5030]

I know more than I should know about Fords game plan and I won't allude to it on any forum, including this one. I was made privy to it by my BIL but told not to say much, so I won't but suffice to say that when the 'rubber meets the road, Fords' is prepared to do what in needs to do to stay viable and I'll leave it at that. Said too much in previous posts that I got chastised for as it is. My BIL reads this forum, not that owns a tractor because he don't. He has a hired grounds keeper.

Fain is insane 'Insane Fain' works. What I wonder is, how long will the UAW hierarchy support Fain once the strike fund runs out of money. After all, money is the root of evil, especially when it comes to unions. They (unions) have a penchant for pizzing away funds on frivolous stuff that has no direct bearing on potential strike funding and always have. Good example is the Teamsters and the dwindling retiree pension fund.

The rank and file are all boisterous and full of themselves presently but I'm curious to see how they will be once the strike funding is depleted and they have to eek out an existence on something that don't even come close to what the make at any unionized plant today, in fact much, much less, if anything at all.

Flipping burgers at McDees or stocking the shelves at WallyWorld don't cut it for them, but it may in the end and I don't see many of the non union builders absorbing many of the unionized auto workers because those companies don't want to deal with that union attitude in the first place. It has no place there.

I am profoundly grateful that this don't impact me or my family one bit. For us, life goes on just like it did yesterday and the day before.

 

[Roric]

5030,

A lot wrong here but you stated that the firm you worked for "paid the union's scale".
Who do you think established that?

The $110,000 per year you pulled down, plus benefits in todays dollars would be more than $284,250 dollars. So maybe the UAW is not asking that much.

To worry about conglomerates hurting in the year 2023, when all financial gains bubble up to the top 1/10th 0f 1% is laughable.

But you do you, after you have locked out those that come behind you.

regards,

R

 

[milkman636]

Not all but some are and I've witnessed that first hand and not just in unionized auto plants but anywhere there is a unionized workforce. My ex BIL made a game out of hiding during his 8 hour shift as a Millright at J&L Steel and was proud of his theft of time when working there. Clown would go to work, sleep for 8 hours and then have a buddy clock him out after 9 so he would get an extra hour of OT every day.

When they went bankrupt, he cried like the baby he was and actually had to work after that because he went to a non union shop. He lasted about 30 days and went on disability. What a tool. Plus, he played Johnny Cash with his lunchbox and stole stuff constantly and was proud of it.

Unions protect the lazy and shiftless workers and are no longer needed today. Collective bargaining is nothing but a vehicle to protect and coddle poor workers who cannot or aren't willing to put in an honest days work for a day's pay.

I'd kike to see Fords, GN and Stellantis declare bankruptcy and reorganize non union and actually lower the new vehicle cost and kick the union to the curb. The main driving cost of new vehicles is the legacy cost and the inefficiency caused by insane union work rules.

Same applies to USPS BTW.

If USPS blew the union out and got rid of them and their insane work rules, they could ACTUALLY lower costs substantially and provide excellent and competitive service, just like UPS and Fed-Ex does.

I know, UPS IS UNION. The difference is, the union at UPS don't run the company. At the PO, it does.

I can post volumes of pages that I've personally experienced delivering steel to unionized auto plants over my almost 40 year career of delivering slit coils and rolled sheet steel to auto plants in and around Michigan, Ohio. Pennsylvania and Indiana and everyone of those plants were UAW represented and that includes unionized mills like US Steel, Inland, Weirton, Warren Consolidated, Republic, Rouge and LTV. Of course most of the domestic mills have folded, went bankrupt or got bought out and the unions are gone now and the reincarnated mills are non union and making money and of course owned by offshore entities, like Acceleor Mittal for instance. AM in Cleveland is still ASW but Mittal rules with an iron hand as in no BS or you are gone.

All I can say is, I was grateful the company I drove for was non union, but paid union scale plus and the health and welfare package was far better as well. Let me just say 35 years ago, I was averaging over 110K a year on straight time with 5 weeks paid vacation, 100% 401 match, company paid Blue Cross, Christmas bonus, birthday bonus and Passover bonus. No union dues either. You worked. if you slacked, you were gone. No one slacked either. Got a brand new conventional Western Star and a new curtainside trailer, every 2 years too. Big Cat and a 13 double over with every option.

I retired at 56 and went to work for them part time. Fully retired at 60 and been retired since. No union dues, no BS either.

What a great job and I appreciated it as did all the other 56 drivers.

I'm gonna throw some food for thought out here. You lived and worked in the heart of union country at a time that unions were strong. Your employer was also located there. Is it possible that he may have found it was necessary to pay very well if he wanted to attract good people and keep them from leaving for union jobs? If so, like it or not, you directly benefitted from the existence of labor unions in your area.

If those union jobs were not around, do you think your employer would have compensated you near as generously? History says the answer is no,

If look back though 20th century history, labor unions, labor laws, safety rules, and environmental laws all came into existence because of consistent patterns of abuse by companies and employers prior to external regulations. The safe and civil workplace we all expect was created through regulation and government intervention, not employer benevolence. FDR and the new deal congress were a huge part of initiating that progress.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Those that get locked out do concern me at the age of 72 because that is the majority. Our kids are about to turn 26 and there a large number that struggle with rent and transportation. Forms of slavery still exists today for people that can't see better days through better ways. People without hope tend to shut down or act out. Both can be bad for the future of society and the individuals.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I Talked With UAW Workers On The Picket Line In Front Of The Ford Bronco Plant. Here's What They Had To Say - The Autopian

I found this helpful coming from the troops in the trenches. I'm not sure everyone got the memo that globalization meant the higher income countries would be moving to a lower standard of living so we could pull up the lower level countries that had never met with success at the people level.

 

[milkman636]

I Talked With UAW Workers On The Picket Line In Front Of The Ford Bronco Plant. Here's What They Had To Say - The Autopian

I found this helpful coming from the troops in the trenches. I'm not sure everyone got the memo that globalization meant the higher income countries would be moving to a lower standard of living so we could pull up the lower level countries that had never met with success at the people level.

Great post.

How many of us would like to set our wages based on what people in other countries are willing to do the job for?

A guy living in India could do my job for 1/4 my pay and live large, and if I reduced my pay by 50% I'd still be 100% more expensive than him. That's not a position I want to bargain from.

 

[5030]

I'm gonna throw some food for thought out here. You lived and worked in the heart of union country at a time that unions were strong. Your employer was also located there. Is it possible that he may have found it was necessary to pay very well if he wanted to attract good people and keep them from leaving for union jobs? If so, like it or not, you directly benefitted from the existence of labor unions in your area.

If those union jobs were not around, do you think your employer would have compensated you near as generously? History says the answer is no,

If look back though 20th century history, labor unions, labor laws, safety rules, and environmental laws all came into existence because of consistent patterns of abuse by companies and employers prior to external regulations. The safe and civil workplace we all expect was created through regulation and government intervention, not employer benevolence. FDR and the new deal congress were a huge part of initiating that progress.

I agree but (BIG BUT), unions have outlived their usefulness. They were the motivating vehicle back in the 20's through 50's but today, all they are is a weight on the free enterprise system that causes companies to close their doors.

Again, YRC is a prime example. UPS agreed to the Teamsters demands but raised their package rate to offset it so it now costs you more to ship the same. See, in the end, you, as a consumer pays the freight with no choice. Same with the Post Office. First Class Stamps have increased in cost every year with no increase in services rendered. In fact quality of service has declined of anything.

The part of your comment I bolded is key to the entire 'what is going down' today.

When a company or corporation becomes so entwined with any union, that the union is dictating their very existence, it's time for one of 2 things to happen. Either the company declares bankruptcy and reorganizes as a non union entity or it ceases doing business entirely. Only 2 avenues to take.

I'll let you decide which one Fords will take. I already know but again, I'm not saying anything. Whatever Fords decides, it will be the template for the other domestic automakers as well because Fords has been 'nominated' to lead this.

The real issue is with the T2 and T3 suppliers, most of which are not union and in reality, employ substantially more worker bees than all the automakers combined and it will adversely impact their ability to supply the non union automakers with intrinsic parts as well If you think (wrongly) that Toyota or Nissan or any non union southern RTW state located auto builder builds their sub assemblies and necessary parts in house, your are totally mistaken because all of them source parts and sub assemblies from the same outfits that build for Fords, GM and Stellantis and curtailment of those parts will negatively impact their businesses, some to the point of ceasing doing business entirely and laying off masses of workers that will negatively impact the fragile economy as well.

Like Ronald Regan said... Trickle Down Economy. It's gonna trickle down right to you...and me.

Gonna let it ride for a few days and let the chips fall where they may... or may not.