Window/door question

[Wayne County Hose]

Okay Charles, I'll do the best I can. I do have some knowledge, probably a little more than I claim to have.

I was there when he installed many of the windows. Here was the procedure. Cut the house wrap, fold all 4 pieces inside and staple. Install the window. Make level, while guy inside is holding level with a prybar, guy on outside nails the flanges. No vycor type flashing, no caulk, no shims.

Good idea with the Simpson ties on the porch. The porch opening is on the side of the prevailing wind. Pretty much the direction most of the storms come from. This guy is not a believer in any type of ties or hangers.

I'm going to go look for that book right now. I have the UCC code book, but it is barely understandable to the common idiot like me.

 

[dmccarty]

How is the porch floor joists attached to the house?

Are they resting on the foundation?

Or are they attached to the header/rim joist? I'm talking about the 2x? that is running parallel to the foundation and perpendicular to the floor joists.

If the port floor joists are attached to the header/rim joist is it with threaded bolts or lag screws. Decks fail frequently because the deck attachment to the house is inadequate. It takes quite a bit of lag screws to support some loads.

Anywho, if this is a problem, Journal of Light Construction can throw some light on the issue.

Later,
Dan

 

[Wayne County Hose]

Dan, they are simply nailed to the rim joist. I am going to lag bolt them with stainless bolts. Yea, galvanized would be okay, but I can get stainless for close to the same price.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Nailed is NOT acceptable! Lag or bolt.

Windows have to be vycor-d before housewrap. peeling them in like that is bad practice - now water could be directed in.

Prybar plumb and level is standard. Do the windows open and close easily? That's the key test.

I'd put vycor over the rough sill, then the windows directly on the sheathing. Plumb and level. shim as necessary, depending on the structure. Next vycor in an upside down U over the fins, legs first. Usually not on bottom to give any water that gets in a hope of getting out.

Then housewrap over, once again from the bottom up so water is directed out. I don't tape the housewrap, some will disagree with this. I don't think it's necessary if you frame well, and I want the water to leave once again.

Next, window trim. Sill, legs, cap out over legs, flashing up the wall and down over cap (I use lead, there are other options, aluminum and copper).

Then siding down over the cap flash.

That's the way carpenters have been doing it for 100s of years (x vycor) - it won't leak.

 

[Charlesaf3]

oh and watch for water detailing where the deck ledger hits the house. That's a big rot area if not handled right, though a roof over it will save a lot of grief. But windblown rain goes surprisingly far.

 

[dmccarty]

Dan, they are simply nailed to the rim joist. I am going to lag bolt them with stainless bolts. Yea, galvanized would be okay, but I can get stainless for close to the same price.

I take it nailed means no joist hangers?

The problem with lag bolts is that they are lag bolts and not a bolt, washer, and nut. Depending on the width of your porch and its design load you might need a lag bolt every six inches.

JLC had a discussion on attaching decks to the house. The number of bolts/washer/nuts needed to handle the load can be surprising. Using lag bolts and you needed even more. I'm gong to make up numbers and all of this depends on the size and design load but you might need a bolt/washer/nut connection every 18-24 inches. With a lag bolt for the same load you might need one every six inches.

Given how many people have been hurt and killed by deck failures caused by inadequate attachment to the house its shockng that this passed inspection.

Hopefully I'm going off half cocked and the porch joists are on joist hangers but it seems like you said he did not use those in a previous post.

I'm not a PE, I did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night but I do read. So I am dangerous.

A porch 6 foot deep and 10 feet long is 600 sq ft. Say the design load is 40# per sq ft. that is 24,000 pounds. Half of that load will be on your posts. Looks like they are short and 4x4s so they are likely ok structurally. The attachment to the house has to support 12,000 pounds. If you put in four bolts those bolts would be handling 3,000 pounds each.

Say the porch was 10 feet deep. Now you are looking at 40,000 pounds with 20,000 pounds on those four bolts. Or 5,000 pounds per bolt. if you put in 20 bolts that would mean each bolt would support 1,000 pounds.

So the question is how many bolts does one need to support the design load? I'm not smart enough to answer the question, I just smart enough to ask the question.

Anyhoo this is something code should cover. We had a accident on a porch locally a few years ago at house were there was a party. A bunch of people were on a deck that was 10 feet or so above grade. The deck failed at the rim joist connection. There were broken bones and serious injuries. Right before the deck failed a bunch of kids were under the deck. If they had been under there they likely would have died.

The one good thing about your porch is that its covered. Many deck failures are also caused by inadequate or non existing flashing. The structure gets wet, rots, and then fails.

Hopefully I'm just blowing smoke in your case but it might helpsome else.

Later,
Dan

 

[Charlesaf3]

yep. For me 2 lags every 16" at least. And I use a girder instead of a structural rim. Though I still double the rim and timberlok it to the joists.

Nuts and bolts are better of course.

A cordless impact wrench makes the process more fun.

 

[Charlesaf3]

and per above, make sure the ledger is either flashed or has a drainage space with siding behind it (I'm belt and suspenders, I do the second, but I'm guessing the deck is framed with no space between the ledger and the house, so flashing it is fine. I'd probably do metal over vycor down first. keep water out on the top, and leave it a place to go on the bottom, that is not inside your walls.

On the deck itself, I do mahogany. Noticeably more expensive relatively than PT, but in absolute terms not much over a porch - $800 maybe? Lifecycle cost its cheaper - no need to replace in 15 years. And a much nicer deck, pretty and no splinters.

 

[davitk]

I was there when he installed many of the windows. Here was the procedure. Cut the house wrap, fold all 4 pieces inside and staple. Install the window. Make level, while guy inside is holding level with a prybar, guy on outside nails the flanges. No vycor type flashing, no caulk, no shims.

I am late in on this discussion, and confess have not read its entirety. However, as you must have figured out by now that your builder is a bit behind on the times and has not learned from history. Housewrap is no longer installed this way, by folding the top inside the wall framing (standard procedure at one point in time) it potentially directs water on top of the window and thus into the house (especially if the flanges are not caulked). It is now (and has been for years) recommended that the housewrap above the window be allowed to hang over the flange, like a tent flap, directing water outside of the building envelope.

Lots of luck to you, this really sucks. I make much of my income fixing problems created by builders like yours. Keep your chin up.

 

[Charlesaf3]

you caught things early enough, this'll be fine after a bit of hassle. Pain is when the finishes are ove these things, and you have to rip them off to fix things.