Windows XP or Linux.. don't go to next MS OS

DaNag · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( They blame the so called Microsoft monopoly...)

That "so called" monopoly was convicted. But don't let the facts get in your way...just lump all those "Microsoft bashers" in with the hippies and free love crowd.

Then, when you're done dismissing them as a bunch of nuts, try and reconcile the fact that they are responsible for most of the software running this place.

MadReferee · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( Then, when you're done dismissing them as a bunch of nuts, try and reconcile the fact that they are responsible for most of the software running this place. )

Thanks for verifying what I said earlier, "Most of them would be without employment if it wasn't for Microsoft. "

getut · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

I make my living with Microsoft software. Microsoft has done great things for the computer industry. Before around 1995 people argued that there was too much diversity... not enough standardization on a single platform. Sharing data among companies was difficult at best. Microsoft fixed that and now people are angry that they got what they asked for (one company controlling most of the market so that the interoperability is there).

Microsoft makes a buggy product, but it is the best out there at being a jack of all trades. It may do nothing perfectly, but it can do everything to an acceptable level.

90% of the network systems I support are Microsoft, but I also have to handle network issues for a few Unix, quite a few Linux, a whole bunch of proprietary networked Programmable Logic Controllers (PLC) and even a few iSeries (AS/400). They ALL have their individual problems. They all are best at their respective duties.

But Now that I have said all that, I wanted to make the point that MadReferee's point and all my typing above in this post is irrelevant. If it is WRONG, then it is WRONG. Period. The media and computer industry are headed down a path that takes rights away from consumers. They have still done what amounts to a big back door job on consumers and most aren't even aware of it. That is what I am trying to do.. let people know. Because most people will not even be aware of it until they try to record their fist movie on their new HDTV system to watch later and it won't let them. Or worse yet, they will charge you for something that used to be your "right". In other words.. you pay a monthly fee to watch your HDTV feed from Time Warner Cable for example. You try to record your favorite show because you want to take your wife out to eat while that show is on. Your electronics equipment won't let you record it because of the anti-copy bit embedded in the data stream.. BUT a huge pop up window may pop up that says.. "For $5.99 extra that can be automatically deducted from your credit card, we will allow you to record this show for later watching.. but one viewing only" "For $25.99 we will let you record the show and keep it to watch as many times as you want".

I have also tried to stress the fact that these laws are NOT just a Microsoft thing. It goes way above Microsoft.

I can't agree with your point ( Most of them would be without employment if it wasn't for Microsoft.) Just because they did something good in the past doesn't mean we should let any company walk over us now. In fact to me it would mean more the opposite. Here is a company that has done good things in the past. I would EXPECT them to continue the trend... if they don't continue the trend they have broken my trust and won't get my dollars.

PBinWA · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

Keep the government out of this until there is a strong case against Microsoft's practices (prove they have a monopoly). Let the market and the consumer drive the process. If all the Microsoft bashers would spend more time writing better software and getting the Linux chaos in order then they would have a chance at defeating Microsoft. Currently, Apple is the only desktop *nix derivative that is in anyway usable. They have a long way to go before they can start to hurt Microsoft.

Microsoft is making a product that meets the need of their consumer base. The consumer is buying it because it works "good enough". Want to defeat Microsoft? Make a better product than them and sell it at a more competitive price.

As far as the DRM thing goes - look at Apple and iTunes? Isn't that pretty much a locked down product? Yes it can be hacked but not by the average user. The DRM protections are there and you are forced to use Apple's iTunes site with their hardware for any "purchased" content. I don't own an iPod for this exact reason.

Let free market economics do its thing. We the consumer have the ultimate power.

Let's drop this thread and discuss tractors here. Slashdot is the place to discuss this crap. I come to the TBN to escape work.

MadReferee · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

Well said, PBinWA. I agree totally.

DaNag · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( Keep the government out of this until there is a strong case against Microsoft's practices (prove they have a monopoly). Let the market and the consumer drive the process. If all the Microsoft bashers would spend more time writing better software and getting the Linux chaos in order then they would have a chance at defeating Microsoft.)

Huh? The government already got involved, had an incredibly strong case, and Microsoft was CONVICTED of being an illegal monopoly. Based on this conviction, numerous other lawsuits have been filed against them by competitors who were affected by their illegal behavior, and Microsoft has paid millions in damages. How much more proof do you want?

RE "writing better software"...sorry if it may seem like a Microsoft bashing or elitist attitude, but as someone who's been intimately involved with this technology since about 1980, I like to think I've been around the block. The Microsoft battle has already been won on the server side - there's simply no comparison in quality of code, security, performance, support or ease of administration. Microsoft servers account for a distinct minority of servers in our data center, and their numbers are decreasing every year; this is the norm, not the exception.

While the Linux desktop efforts are not as polished, development is in it's infancy. Rather than look at where it is now, look at the phenomenal strides that have been made in the last 2 years. The incremental progress during this time period far surpasses the efforts of Microsoft's offerings during the same timeframe.

Linux on the desktop is where Linux on the server was 5 years ago. Add to that, it's already becoming the platform of choice (server and desktop) in other countries, particularly developing countries where citizens and governments balk at the high initial and ongoing costs associated with Microsoft products. This, combined with the increasing amount of software development performed overseas, leads me to one pretty simple conclusion - Microsoft's days of desktop dominance are numbered.

Spiffy · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

 Let's drop this thread and discuss tractors here. Slashdot is the place to discuss this crap. 

I can't disagree that Slashdot or similar places is where this discussion probably belongs, but the information in the original post really doesn't people do there any good, they already know the potential of software; many people here probably don't.

At any rate, you're right, consumers will need to drive our own fate....but to me, information is a good thing.

As far as my take, at very minimum competition is good, so I've said for a couple years, "I'm switching to Linux," but am still running XP and mostly IE. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif "What a hypocrite am I!"

getut · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( Let's drop this thread and discuss tractors here. Slashdot is the place to discuss this crap. I come to the TBN to escape work. )

PB.. respectfully, there are most likely quite a few people here who simply didn't know about any of this stuff, and frankly they probably still don't. But it will get them asking questions anyway when they make their next purchase.

This stuff affects all of us here. It will finally impact nearly every household all at once after it is too late in 2009 when HDTV is the only TV that will work. Once there is no alternative and nothing to go back to, the bad stuff will start. Can you honestly say that once this technology is rolled out and it enables a new revenue stream if you want to continue recording television that they won't do it?

They will take rights away from consumers only to sell them back later. Most people here will probably want to know that.

This thread is clearly labelled as to what it is about. It is in one of the open forums where much more than tractors get discussed. Its a shame when something that someone doesn't want to talk about gets discussed, then they say things like you did to try and get it closed for everyone.

Moon · Jul 17, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

Thanks for the heads up getut! This is the perfect forum on TBN for this topic. A week or so ago I asked a computer question about a thumb drive problem I was having, and had multiple responses within an hour of posting.

( As far as my take, at very minimum competition is good, so I've said for a couple years, "I'm switching to Linux," but am still running XP and mostly IE. "What a hypocrite am I!"
)

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif me to! I have Linux running on a faster processor right next to the machine I'm using now. I've wanted to make the break from MS ....but they make things so easy. I feel like a MS junkie. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

rswyan · Jul 18, 2005

Re: Windows XP or Linux.. don\'t go to next MS OS

( Keep the government out of this until there is a strong case against Microsoft's practices (prove they have a monopoly). )
Good lord man ...... who do you work for up there in WA exactly ? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

( As far as the DRM thing goes - look at Apple and iTunes? Isn't that pretty much a locked down product? Yes it can be hacked but not by the average user. The DRM protections are there and you are forced to use Apple's iTunes site with their hardware for any "purchased" content. I don't own an iPod for this exact reason. )
Jiminey ...... I can't let this one go by ...... too much FUD ....

First of all, iTunes is available for both Mac and PC .... so it doesn't only work with Apple's hardware - it works on PC's as well /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif As far as players go, if you own a Mac the following players are compatible and supported in addition to Apple's iPod:

Nomad II Creative Labs USB
Nomad II MG Creative Labs USB
Nomad II c Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox 20GB Creative Labs USB
Nomad Jukebox C Creative Labs USB
Novad MuVo Creative Labs USB
Rio One SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 500 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 600 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 800 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio 900 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S10 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S11 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S30S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S35S SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio S50 SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Chiba SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Fuse SONICBlue/S3 USB
Rio Cali SONICBlue/S3 USB
psa]play 60 Nike USB
psa]play 120 Nike USB
SoundSpace 2 Nakamichi USB

CD MP3 Players Manufacturer
RioVolt SP250 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP100 SONICBlue/S3
RioVolt SP90 SONICBlue/S3

If you own a PC no other players are currently supported (look for this to change possibly, with further iTunes software updates, given that iTunes for Windows is a relatively recent offering)

The above info was as of tonight when I checked.

Secondly, you don't have to use Apple's site (iTunes Music Store) for all content (purchased or otherwise) - I have tons of music in my iTunes library (2662 total tracks) of which, about 3 total songs were procured through ITMS (and they were freebies) - all the rest of it was either CD's that I already owned and converted to MP3 or AAC, or stuff that I downloaded (legally) off the 'net.

If you are downloading and/or purchasing music from other sites, I suspect that the music would work fine in iTunes .... provided that it is in a standard format such as MP3 ... and not some proprietary or copy-protected format that the site you bought them from or your player uses.

iTunes and iTunes Music Store does have DRM for the stuff that you buy through iTMS, but not necessarily for other sources such as broadcast recordings, CD's (although some CD's have their own copy protection), etc.

( Microsoft is making a product that meets the need of their consumer base. The consumer is buying it because it works "good enough". Want to defeat Microsoft? Make a better product than them and sell it at a more competitive price. )
Quite possibly why Apple owns the personal music player marketplace - they made a better product than anyone else out there.

( Let's drop this thread and discuss tractors here. Slashdot is the place to discuss this crap. I come to the TBN to escape work. )
So, like ... should we check first before we start any non-tractor threads or what ? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif