Winter driving

[brandoro]

If you don't like people who drive around all of the time with their front "fog" lights on why would you want to extend the problem to the rear of the car? I have followed the odd car at night that has the rear bright fog light, extremely annoying on a perfect, clear night. I suspect they are just like the front fog lights, people buy a new car, fiddle with all the switches and controls to see what they do, the fog lights get turned on and never, ever get shut off. I think fog lights should disconnect when you shut off the key and/or the other lights and not turn back on unless the operator turns them back on.
My current primary vehicle is a Toyota, the headlights were aimed too high so I wanted them adjusted. Their procedure says, "remove all articles from the vehicle". To me this means that the headlights will be too high again before the vehicle even leaves the shop because they will put all those articles back in which changes the attitude of the vehicle. I had them set the lights with everything that I normally carry in the vehicle. Sometimes they are a bit low but, never too high. Also, now I know how they are adjusted, should I have more than usual weight in the vehicle I can adjust the lights myself.
The bottom line is, operating a vehicle is a full time job but, far too many people devote as little attention to doing that as they think they can get away with. Most of the extra features for lights are to try to protect people from their lack of ability or attention. Better to only have lights on the front of your silver/grey vehicle in the fog than none at all. Disabling the DRL's does not mean the other lights will be turned on. If the driver is attentive, taking care of the business at hand, he or she will realise they are not very visible and turn the rest of the vehicle lights on, regardless of what the vehicle might do 'automatically'.
I could go on, this is a subject I tend to rant about too.
Getting back to the OP's comment about tires, I have a full set of winter tires mounted on dedicated wheels. If the snow is not up to the door handles I will probably get to where ever I need to. I call "all season" tires "no season" tires, really not the best at any time.

 

[bp fick]

duplicate

 

[bp fick]

To the OP's original point as well.

Years ago, people had two sets of tires for the rear. It was just considered normal. As a young man in HS and College, I drove a wrecker and worked in a busy garage. Each fall and spring, hundreds of our clients did the change over for the upcoming season.

With advent of the all season tire, front wheel drive, etc, this went out of fashion. Actually, some say the all season tire does little very well, but does all things so so. YMMV.

I drive a conventional rear wheel drive pickup. It cannot motivate without genuine, real snow tire on the rear in winter. So, for me, it's alloy wheels with nice quiet road tires for summer, and big ol' nasty all terrains on ugly steel wheels in winter. Old school.

 

[archerm3]

To the OP's original point as well.

Years ago, people had two sets of tires for the rear. It was just considered normal. As a young man in HS and College, I drove a wrecker and worked in a busy garage. Each fall and spring, hundreds of our clients did the change over for the upcoming season.

With advent of the all season tire, front wheel drive, etc, this went out of fashion. Actually, some say the all season tire does little very well, but does all things so so. YMMV.

I drive a conventional rear wheel drive pickup. It cannot motivate without genuine, real snow tire on the rear in winter. So, for me, it's alloy wheels with nice quiet road tires for summer, and big ol' nasty all terrains on ugly steel wheels in winter. Old school.

Yep, me three on the all season tire crap, oops I mean they are crap.

My M3 with snow tires gets around better on ice and shallow snow than my 4x4 Tacoma does with All terrain tires, IN 4x4. Only when the snow gets up to the airdam and rocker panels of the car does it start bogging down in the snow... Soon to put snow tires on my Tacoma but I keep thinking about getting rid of it every year so I don't want to invest the money...selfinduced problem.

I'm 39 yo, and there's people in my generation and younger that have never driven rear wheel drive and don't know how they handle. Not their fault, just isn't any around...but you know, people did get around in snow for oh, some 50 years before "I" was born.

Instead of mandating DRL's, make a "mandate" that you drive with your low beams on. Too easy, doesn't cost car makers more, doesn't cost us more in more complicated electrical systems and options we don't need. Just turn the durn lights on, don't, get a ticket. Oh, and your tail lights would be on too.

 

[irvingj]

Interesting... I see this thread has touched a nerve...(several!).

I take driving very seriously, always have. Grew up with a step-dad who was a used car dealer, drove a LOT of different vehicles over the years, and hate to think of how many miles I've covered.

I really does upset me --I'm trying to be politically correct here-- to see some of the dummies --oops! "people"-- on the road who do some really foolish things. The DRL situation hasn't helped much, as many have pointed out, but it's a start.

Totally agree with all of you, some very good points made. I've since this AM learned that many states have the "wipers on, lights on" law, but, well, NH tends to be a bit behind the times at times....

And don't get me started on "All-Season" tires! I work at a school, and many of our teachers are well educated, but have no idea what a snow tire is! Seems to me all-seasons go sideways just about as well as they track forward.

All my vehicles have two mounted sets, as bpfick does. I put 'em on, WITH A TORQUE WRENCH, NOT A TORQUE STICK ON AN IMPACT WRENCH, when I want. No charge. I figure what I save in tire-changing labor, plus the wear and tear on the rims (and the tire beads!), plus the convenience of not having to wait in line at a tire store, etc., etc. more than pays for the cost of an extra set of rims. I highly recommend to anyone who asks that they do the same.

archerm3- I grew up with RWD, as you did, and learned to handle them in limited-traction situations, just as everyone did back then-- but I feel fortunate that I was also able to cut my teeth on FWD with a couple of 1965 SAAB 96s, the ones with the 3-cylinder 2-stroke engines. I think the only domestic FWD car around then was the brand-new Olds Toronado.

OK. I'm calmed down now.

 

[Bird]

I have no idea how many people in how many states change tires for the Winter, but my father-in-law, who lived in the south end of West Virginia (very hilly terrain) used to keep 2 sets of 4 tires mounted on rim, so he could change them quickly.

In 1991, I went to Anchorage and worked in my brother's tire dealership/garage and in April, we were changing out Winter tires for the Summer tires on better than a hundred cars a day. But I don't recall any of our customers having their tires mounted on an extra set of wheels. I guess those who did that also changed them themselves. So we were mounting and balancing the summer tires.

 

[archerm3]

Irving, I know what you mean about the torque wrench! I deliberately search out mechanic shops that torque lugs with a torque wrench, they are few and far between. I normally do my own tire changes and light maintenance but sometimes I take the dirty/back breaking suspension work to the mechanic with the lift. I've caught my vehicles all the time with WAY too much torque on them, no wonder people break studs off. You'd think that lug nuts or lug bolts(bmw) are TTY's !

Another thing about snow tires is that people balk at the extra cost, but it only really costs you the extra amount of the wheels themselves, as the snows on my sports cars are cheaper than the summer tires, and I'm still getting the same amount of miles per tire, and those miles are basically in double amount of the time since the tires are only being driven half the year...Don't know why people insist on the "cost" issue of all seasons, and ESPECIALLY the high mileage tires which have the traction of steel ball bearings.

 

[brandoro]

I bought the extra wheels and tires at the dealership, surprisingly their price was better than any I found elsewhere. When I saw the "technician" putting the winter wheels on with an impact wrench I immediately told the service manager that I didn't accept that. He told me, 'no problem they use torque sticks'. When I got home I marked some of the nuts, broke them loose and then torqued with my torque wrench. At least half a flat less rotation with the torque wrench than with the torque stick. Not sure how much to much that is but still too much. I'll continue to use the wrench and they (dealership) are off my list of who I allow to put wheels on my vehicles. It's a really short list. I figure impact wrenches are for taking stuff apart, not for assembly.

 

[dave1949]

If you don't like people who drive around all of the time with their front "fog" lights on why would you want to extend the problem to the rear of the car? I have followed the odd car at night that has the rear bright fog light, extremely annoying on a perfect, clear night. I suspect they are just like the front fog lights, people buy a new car, fiddle with all the switches and controls to see what they do, the fog lights get turned on and never, ever get shut off. I think fog lights should disconnect when you shut off the key and/or the other lights and not turn back on unless the operator turns them back on.
.

I want it all - good lights and people who use them correctly. To my earlier point, will you ever see such a driver pulled over for using the wrong light at the wrong time? Heck no. People don't take driving correctly very seriously.

Having the lights latch off when the key is off is okay, but really just adding more idiot proofery.
Dave.

 

[Thomas]

Whats gets me going person scrapes just enough frost to see,also makes very little effort if any to clear the snow off there vechile..I'll stop there before.....