Winter driving

[etcallhome]

Most of the country of the last couple of weeks have had bad, bad weather.

If not major snow storm, hard rains, fog

We were talking last evening at the Church Program ,saying,wonder who will show up tonight. Roads are so bad. Someone else said 30-40 yrs ago 15-18" was nothing and all would have showed up somehow , very few had 4 x4, AWD, trucks ,Suv or cars.
But we did have Chains, and Winter tires not All Season tires.
That is why They are called Winter tires for driving in the SNOW and Ice
One other thing that needs to done for every ones safety!!!

PLEASE TURN ON YOUR HEADLIGHTS DRL YOU DO NOT HAVE TAIL LIGHTS WITH DRL.....(daytime driving lights) Follow someone in a major snow storm,fog or heavy downspour that only have there DRL....Autolights DO NOT TURN YOUR HEADLIGHTS AT TIMES WHEN THEY ARE REALLY NEEDED,
and please Do Not Text or send,read,messages while driving down the highway!

Merry Christmas to all !!

Happy New Year
Have fun and be safe !!!!!!!!!!

 

[dave1949]

Most of the country of the last couple of weeks have had bad, bad weather.

If not major snow storm, hard rains, fog

We were talking last evening at the Church Program ,saying,wonder who will show up tonight. Roads are so bad. Someone else said 30-40 yrs ago 15-18" was nothing and all would have showed up somehow , very few had 4 x4, AWD, trucks ,Suv or cars.
But we did have Chains, and Winter tires not All Season tires.
That is why They are called Winter tires for driving in the SNOW and Ice
One other thing that needs to done for every ones safety!!!

PLEASE TURN ON YOUR HEADLIGHTS DRL YOU DO NOT HAVE TAIL LIGHTS WITH DRL.....(daytime driving lights) Follow someone in a major snow storm,fog or heavy downspour that only have there DRL....Autolights DO NOT TURN YOUR HEADLIGHTS AT TIMES WHEN THEY ARE REALLY NEEDED,
and please Do Not Text or send,read,messages while driving down the highway!

Merry Christmas to all !!

Happy New Year
Have fun and be safe !!!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas to you too!
Good tip on the lights. I like the Euro-style extra bright tail lamp that can be switched on for foggy, heavy rain or snow times. Wish they would make those standard on cars here.

Also, for younger TBN'ers, after 50 or so, people start losing their night vision gradually. We just don't see as well as we used to in low light conditions. Beware of the old fa*ts behind you

Dave.

 

[etcallhome]

I agree with the Euro-style very good idea.....Sorry for this next commit but I think it was because of the Canadian Gov. and GM cars being sold and made in Canada and Someone at GM thought DRL was such a great safety item.
I told Honda when I bought mine in 06 I didn't want DRL turned on ,and there reply was it is safety feature..I asked the salesman if I had to and he said no. I replied I'm not dumb enough to have them connected. He wanted to know why I didn't want to keep my family safer.....I asked him to think back the last time he was driving on the interstate or a 4 or more lane highway and it was raining ,snowing or foggy.... Now then how many cars could you see coming up behind him either in passing or slow lane .and then that car went by him. How many cars or trucks did not have tail lights on the back of there vehicle. Each one that had some kind of lights on front of car and none on rear was DRL...... Auto lights do not turn them on I would say 2 out of 10 cars when the above conditions exist. Honda's turn headlights on turn the switch off remove keys from switch lights go out...Why do you need DRL ???

All GM and all the others would have to do is like Dave1949 was saying if they would have The Euro type light at least one light Drivers side on rear of car is on brighter than the regular tail light not as bright as the brake light. Plus you know if you come up behind this car in really bad driving conditions you know that is the drivers side of the car. Simple fix for all car companies, but it would cost maybe $.50 per car.....As far as I'm concerned every car made since DRL was first installed need to corrected .

Just my 2 cents
Have fun and be safe !!! At least try

 

[gerard]

Merry Christmas to you too!
Good tip on the lights. I like the Euro-style extra bright tail lamp that can be switched on for foggy, heavy rain or snow times. Wish they would make those standard on cars here.

Also, for younger TBN'ers, after 50 or so, people start losing their night vision gradually. We just don't see as well as we used to in low light conditions. Beware of the old fa*ts behind you

Dave.

My volvo has those

 

[irvingj]

Yes! Speaking of lights and safety.... I agree 100% about the DRL with no taillights- really a potentially dangerous situaton.

Then there are drivers with "camougflaged" cars --silver, dark colors-- that drive in low-light conditions with NO lights on! I think people just don't realize how well a silver car blends in with a wet road on a foggy morning. 40 years ago in Scandinavia, it was a law that if you had your wipers on you had to have headlights on as well.... I see NY now has a similar law; why not the rest of the country?

And my favorite peeve.... (sorry!) the "fog" lights that many newer cars come with- folks never turn 'em off!! They switch to low beam, and you're suddenly faced with a wall of light. I also suspect no one ever checks the aim of those fog lights. When someone's behind me and it's bright enough to cast a strong shadow of my head on my car's ceiling.... ARRGH! Too bad there couldn't be a fairly bright indicator light on the dash when the fog lights are on....

Apologies-- I just had to rant!

Oh- my daughter's Volvo has that "rear fog light"-- I agree, a great idea!

 

[dave1949]

Maine has the 'wipers on - lights on' law too. It's a good and sensible idea.

I think the switchable bright tail light is required in Europe. I know in Sweden headlights were required to be always on back in the '80's and '90's. Northern Europe gets a lot of rainy and foggy weather.

IMO the traffic police spend a lot of time enforcing the wrong things. Speeding tickets are a money maker, but when do you ever hear of a traffic stop for poorly aimed lights or using the wrong lights for the conditions?

A lot of little things that lead to driver fatigue and irritation contributes to accidents I think.

Another hot debate topic in the lights area - it would help a lot if all headlights were at the same height above the pavement. If you drive a small car you know what I mean. There is an absolute loss of rear vision at night and low light conditions with high mounted headlights behind a lower vehicle.

Ever been tailgated down a freeway entrance ramp by someone with poorly aimed or high lights? You have no idea if it is safe to merge into the traffic. The idiots behind you can't seem to figure out they are blinding you. Ever heard of a ticket given for that? It wouldn't be hard to enforce some sensible behavior, but that's not how it works.

Dave.

 

[horse7]

<snip>
PLEASE TURN ON YOUR HEADLIGHTS DRL YOU DO NOT HAVE TAIL LIGHTS WITH DRL.....(daytime driving lights)
...

I have the DRL parts for my truck, but I did not like the fact that the tail lights do not come on with the DRLs-- I agree this seems like a flaw in the thinking of the safety police. Not sure why this is, the delta cost would be small for current production cars. I just always turn on the headlights...

Also, if you look at your insurance policy it could be same as mine-- factory DRLs get a discount, but for my vintage truck DRLs are only factory in Canada or for fleet orders, but not for everyone else.... my truck isn't fleet or Canadian... can't even order DRLs as a factory option, have to buy the parts and install, but then is not factory so no discount!

Hadn't known about the brighter tail lights in Europe for certain conditions. Seems like a good idea, but an aftermarket add on could be too much of a magnet for packs of miscegenated starving lawyers... would need to be factory...

 

[Bird]

it was a law that if you had your wipers on you had to have headlights on as well.... I see NY now has a similar law; why not the rest of the country?

I think most, if not all, states do have such a law. We have a 2002 Ford Crown Victoria and, even with the light switch turned off, the lights come on if you turn on the wipers.

 

[bp fick]

In driving home yesterday, in some rather low light, snowy conditions, my wife and I had this same conversation. It was scary to have some "invisible" cars come up on you, especially while driving in a three or four lane roadway.

Sure we pass laws that mandate drivers turn on their lights, but it simply doesn't work, because it doesn't eliminate the human element; driver error or forgetfulness.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the push for three point seat belts, dual air bags, mandatory side air bags and all the rest, which are all fine safety things, but we neglect the simplest, safety thing we COULD do and that is mandate the DRL. I didn't used to care one way or the other about DRL, but the longer I live, the more I see their value and don't understand why we focus so much on expensive after crash safety of the occupants when we should also be focusing on simple, cost effective prevention in the first place. There, got that out of my system.

 

[archerm3]

Most of the country of the last couple of weeks have had bad, bad weather.

If not major snow storm, hard rains, fog

We were talking last evening at the Church Program ,saying,wonder who will show up tonight. Roads are so bad. Someone else said 30-40 yrs ago 15-18" was nothing and all would have showed up somehow , very few had 4 x4, AWD, trucks ,Suv or cars.
But we did have Chains, and Winter tires not All Season tires.
That is why They are called Winter tires for driving in the SNOW and Ice
One other thing that needs to done for every ones safety!!!

PLEASE TURN ON YOUR HEADLIGHTS DRL YOU DO NOT HAVE TAIL LIGHTS WITH DRL.....(daytime driving lights) Follow someone in a major snow storm,fog or heavy downspour that only have there DRL....Autolights DO NOT TURN YOUR HEADLIGHTS AT TIMES WHEN THEY ARE REALLY NEEDED,
and please Do Not Text or send,read,messages while driving down the highway!

Merry Christmas to all !!

Happy New Year
Have fun and be safe !!!!!!!!!!

Excellent!

 

[brandoro]

If you don't like people who drive around all of the time with their front "fog" lights on why would you want to extend the problem to the rear of the car? I have followed the odd car at night that has the rear bright fog light, extremely annoying on a perfect, clear night. I suspect they are just like the front fog lights, people buy a new car, fiddle with all the switches and controls to see what they do, the fog lights get turned on and never, ever get shut off. I think fog lights should disconnect when you shut off the key and/or the other lights and not turn back on unless the operator turns them back on.
My current primary vehicle is a Toyota, the headlights were aimed too high so I wanted them adjusted. Their procedure says, "remove all articles from the vehicle". To me this means that the headlights will be too high again before the vehicle even leaves the shop because they will put all those articles back in which changes the attitude of the vehicle. I had them set the lights with everything that I normally carry in the vehicle. Sometimes they are a bit low but, never too high. Also, now I know how they are adjusted, should I have more than usual weight in the vehicle I can adjust the lights myself.
The bottom line is, operating a vehicle is a full time job but, far too many people devote as little attention to doing that as they think they can get away with. Most of the extra features for lights are to try to protect people from their lack of ability or attention. Better to only have lights on the front of your silver/grey vehicle in the fog than none at all. Disabling the DRL's does not mean the other lights will be turned on. If the driver is attentive, taking care of the business at hand, he or she will realise they are not very visible and turn the rest of the vehicle lights on, regardless of what the vehicle might do 'automatically'.
I could go on, this is a subject I tend to rant about too.
Getting back to the OP's comment about tires, I have a full set of winter tires mounted on dedicated wheels. If the snow is not up to the door handles I will probably get to where ever I need to. I call "all season" tires "no season" tires, really not the best at any time.

 

[bp fick]

duplicate

 

[bp fick]

To the OP's original point as well.

Years ago, people had two sets of tires for the rear. It was just considered normal. As a young man in HS and College, I drove a wrecker and worked in a busy garage. Each fall and spring, hundreds of our clients did the change over for the upcoming season.

With advent of the all season tire, front wheel drive, etc, this went out of fashion. Actually, some say the all season tire does little very well, but does all things so so. YMMV.

I drive a conventional rear wheel drive pickup. It cannot motivate without genuine, real snow tire on the rear in winter. So, for me, it's alloy wheels with nice quiet road tires for summer, and big ol' nasty all terrains on ugly steel wheels in winter. Old school.

 

[archerm3]

To the OP's original point as well.

Years ago, people had two sets of tires for the rear. It was just considered normal. As a young man in HS and College, I drove a wrecker and worked in a busy garage. Each fall and spring, hundreds of our clients did the change over for the upcoming season.

With advent of the all season tire, front wheel drive, etc, this went out of fashion. Actually, some say the all season tire does little very well, but does all things so so. YMMV.

I drive a conventional rear wheel drive pickup. It cannot motivate without genuine, real snow tire on the rear in winter. So, for me, it's alloy wheels with nice quiet road tires for summer, and big ol' nasty all terrains on ugly steel wheels in winter. Old school.

Yep, me three on the all season tire crap, oops I mean they are crap.

My M3 with snow tires gets around better on ice and shallow snow than my 4x4 Tacoma does with All terrain tires, IN 4x4. Only when the snow gets up to the airdam and rocker panels of the car does it start bogging down in the snow... Soon to put snow tires on my Tacoma but I keep thinking about getting rid of it every year so I don't want to invest the money...selfinduced problem.

I'm 39 yo, and there's people in my generation and younger that have never driven rear wheel drive and don't know how they handle. Not their fault, just isn't any around...but you know, people did get around in snow for oh, some 50 years before "I" was born.

Instead of mandating DRL's, make a "mandate" that you drive with your low beams on. Too easy, doesn't cost car makers more, doesn't cost us more in more complicated electrical systems and options we don't need. Just turn the durn lights on, don't, get a ticket. Oh, and your tail lights would be on too.

 

[irvingj]

Interesting... I see this thread has touched a nerve...(several!).

I take driving very seriously, always have. Grew up with a step-dad who was a used car dealer, drove a LOT of different vehicles over the years, and hate to think of how many miles I've covered.

I really does upset me --I'm trying to be politically correct here-- to see some of the dummies --oops! "people"-- on the road who do some really foolish things. The DRL situation hasn't helped much, as many have pointed out, but it's a start.

Totally agree with all of you, some very good points made. I've since this AM learned that many states have the "wipers on, lights on" law, but, well, NH tends to be a bit behind the times at times....

And don't get me started on "All-Season" tires! I work at a school, and many of our teachers are well educated, but have no idea what a snow tire is! Seems to me all-seasons go sideways just about as well as they track forward.

All my vehicles have two mounted sets, as bpfick does. I put 'em on, WITH A TORQUE WRENCH, NOT A TORQUE STICK ON AN IMPACT WRENCH, when I want. No charge. I figure what I save in tire-changing labor, plus the wear and tear on the rims (and the tire beads!), plus the convenience of not having to wait in line at a tire store, etc., etc. more than pays for the cost of an extra set of rims. I highly recommend to anyone who asks that they do the same.

archerm3- I grew up with RWD, as you did, and learned to handle them in limited-traction situations, just as everyone did back then-- but I feel fortunate that I was also able to cut my teeth on FWD with a couple of 1965 SAAB 96s, the ones with the 3-cylinder 2-stroke engines. I think the only domestic FWD car around then was the brand-new Olds Toronado.

OK. I'm calmed down now.

 

[Bird]

I have no idea how many people in how many states change tires for the Winter, but my father-in-law, who lived in the south end of West Virginia (very hilly terrain) used to keep 2 sets of 4 tires mounted on rim, so he could change them quickly.

In 1991, I went to Anchorage and worked in my brother's tire dealership/garage and in April, we were changing out Winter tires for the Summer tires on better than a hundred cars a day. But I don't recall any of our customers having their tires mounted on an extra set of wheels. I guess those who did that also changed them themselves. So we were mounting and balancing the summer tires.

 

[archerm3]

Irving, I know what you mean about the torque wrench! I deliberately search out mechanic shops that torque lugs with a torque wrench, they are few and far between. I normally do my own tire changes and light maintenance but sometimes I take the dirty/back breaking suspension work to the mechanic with the lift. I've caught my vehicles all the time with WAY too much torque on them, no wonder people break studs off. You'd think that lug nuts or lug bolts(bmw) are TTY's !

Another thing about snow tires is that people balk at the extra cost, but it only really costs you the extra amount of the wheels themselves, as the snows on my sports cars are cheaper than the summer tires, and I'm still getting the same amount of miles per tire, and those miles are basically in double amount of the time since the tires are only being driven half the year...Don't know why people insist on the "cost" issue of all seasons, and ESPECIALLY the high mileage tires which have the traction of steel ball bearings.

 

[brandoro]

I bought the extra wheels and tires at the dealership, surprisingly their price was better than any I found elsewhere. When I saw the "technician" putting the winter wheels on with an impact wrench I immediately told the service manager that I didn't accept that. He told me, 'no problem they use torque sticks'. When I got home I marked some of the nuts, broke them loose and then torqued with my torque wrench. At least half a flat less rotation with the torque wrench than with the torque stick. Not sure how much to much that is but still too much. I'll continue to use the wrench and they (dealership) are off my list of who I allow to put wheels on my vehicles. It's a really short list. I figure impact wrenches are for taking stuff apart, not for assembly.

 

[dave1949]

If you don't like people who drive around all of the time with their front "fog" lights on why would you want to extend the problem to the rear of the car? I have followed the odd car at night that has the rear bright fog light, extremely annoying on a perfect, clear night. I suspect they are just like the front fog lights, people buy a new car, fiddle with all the switches and controls to see what they do, the fog lights get turned on and never, ever get shut off. I think fog lights should disconnect when you shut off the key and/or the other lights and not turn back on unless the operator turns them back on.
.

I want it all - good lights and people who use them correctly. To my earlier point, will you ever see such a driver pulled over for using the wrong light at the wrong time? Heck no. People don't take driving correctly very seriously.

Having the lights latch off when the key is off is okay, but really just adding more idiot proofery.
Dave.

 

[Thomas]

Whats gets me going person scrapes just enough frost to see,also makes very little effort if any to clear the snow off there vechile..I'll stop there before.....