Winter Fuel

[RobS]

Is there a difference between summer and winter diesel fuel? If there is, how do I know which I'm getting? I've got to get some fuel tonight for the weekend. Trouble is, I'm slowing down for the winter so I doubt I'll use a full five gallons between now and snow (cold). Should I only get what I'll use this weekend and get more later, or just use an additive (which I use anyway). Thanks /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[snowman]

#2 is for winter (cold weather) use.

Usually indicates it right on the pump (at the gas station).

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Hi Rob,

I think Mr. Snowman is getting too excited about winter coming.../w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

2-D is normal diesel fuel used through-out most of the year

1-D is winterized diesel fuel {in the Northeast mostly blended with kerosene}

A good rule is fill half your diesel tank with kerosene and you won't have any problems...{if you already have 2-D in the tank}

 

[snowman]

Sorry about that - I thought #2 was the winter blend. I'm basically in the same situation as Rob in that I don't use too much fuel over the winter, so I used up what diesel I had then filled my container with #2 last week - oh well.

John - I'll do as you suggest and add some kerosene to what I have in the tank. Question - what would happen if I have a more than 50/50 blend of Kerosene/diesel - would too much kerosene make it run rough? What would happen if I had 100% kerosene (not going to do it, am just curious).

Actually - I am eagerly awaiting some snow - it's sleeting outside right now (Central NY). Got new chains, new back blade, newly paved 600' driveway and 2,000 sf turnaround - want to see how I do this year!


Thanks.

 

[RobS]

OK guys, now I'm really confused. I get my fuel at the local Amoco/Quickie Mart and there is only one pump for diesel. No choices for me. Also, I doubt the soccer moms in their diesel Mercedes are mixing Kerosene and #2 to get to the hair salon on time. Is this only a problem for us tractor owners as our fuel may sit longer than a car/truck user?

I have been using Power Service fuel supplement year 'round. Here's what they say:

<font color=red>In Winter:
Prevents fuel gelling in temperatures as low as -40°F.
Equals performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels
Lowers Cold-Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) as much as 36°F. – keeps fuel-filters from plugging with wax
Boosts cetane up to 4 number for easier starts
Contains anti-icing additive – protects against fuel-filter icing </font color=red>

Even with this relatively easy treatment, I doubt those soccer moms are using it. My guess is the Quickie-mart sells winter fuel year 'round? Again though, how do I know?

No offense to soccer moms, I'm married to one. Trouble is, her Mercedes is spelled "C-a-r-a-v-a-n" /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

Rob,
You'll be fine with the power service. You don't have to have kerosene mixed with your fuel. The dealers do it because it's cheaper than adding something like power service to prevent the freezing. You will actually be better off the way you are going as the power service will be a cleaner burn with more hp than the winter blend. My mileage on my truck always goes down with winter blend. I try and get my tanks at the house filled before they get the winter blend in and treat it with power service as well so that I can run the good diesel as long as possible. The only real advantage to the winter blend is it doesn't gel.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<font color=blue>… My guess is the Quickie-mart sells winter fuel year 'round?…</font color=blue>
No… it's whatever the supplier does… usually from about Mid October to End of April in NE US region will be winterized fuel… So soccer-mom is unaware of any changes to fuel… Most fuel stations will have signage posted stating “Winterized 1-D Fuel” on the pumps for the truckers…

Also most fuel suppliers will have limited tank storage and inventory and will only have 1-D available at their site… so delivery of “home heating oil” to that customer/farmer with the tank mounted “outside” will get 1-D fuel oil during the winter months…
{besides their supply tanks would “gel up” with straight 2-D fuel in the winter also…}

<font color=blue>… more hp than the winter blend…</font color=blue>
Yes, regular 2-D fuel has a higher “BTU” per gallon than blended winterized 1-D and “gasoline”… so in essence another reason you get better mileage and more work {horsepower/torque} from a diesel over gasoline engine…

<font color=blue>… what would happen if I have a more than 50/50 blend of Kerosene/diesel - would too much kerosene make it run rough? What would happen if I had 100% kerosene…</font color=blue>
Normally, after you cut your tank {mix 50/50}, the next time you buy fuel in the NE at the pumps… it will be winterized… so you won’t have to mix it again. On a severe sub-zero cold spell, running straight kerosene is not unheard of… but usually you will have hydraulic problems at this temp. stage {even with so called synthetic expensive hydraulic fluid…} The major disadvantage of running straight kerosene tank after tank is you don’t have the “diesel” lubricant properties the diesel engines need over long term usage…

Note-The winterized fuel comments are made pertaining to the Northeast U.S., I’m sure San Diego, CA. and Tampa, FL doesn’t know what 1-D fuel is…so obviously mixing kerosene with diesel in those area’s shouldn’t be done as it would be unnecessary…

 

[Jeff396]

Speaking of suppliments, I own a Ford F350 Diesel. At 15k intervals I am supposed to add 8 oz. of Ford FW-15 fluid to cooling system. Something about better cooling. Do we have anything like that for our tractors?

Jeff

 

[cowboydoc]

Jeff,
For your tractor just use the Fleetguard extended life coolant. It already has it in it. All diesels should have an anit-cavitation supplement or coolant. Also Ford has just come out with the extended life coolant for our pickups. Well worth it to me as you don't have to change coolant for 250,000 miles and you don't have to put the FW-15 in anymore.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Re: Winter Fuel - and Antifreeze...

<font color=blue>…I am supposed to add 8 oz. of Ford FW-15 fluid to cooling system…Do we have anything like that for our tractors?…</font color=blue>

Hi Jeff,
It never fails…/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif on TBN in the summer we discuss winter and freezing stuff… and of course in the winter we talk about mowing our lawns… /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Check out this past thread on using additives and different antifreezes…

Diesel engine antifreeze vs. Gasoline engine antifreeze

 

[RobS]

I just got back from a remote site of ours and took the time to fill up. Amoco had clearly labeled #2 Diesel. The sign on the pump looked pretty permanent. If/when they change to #1 for winter, do they change the pump sign? I don't recall ever seeing anything other than #2 on this pump. Maybe they just have a winter blend (50/50) and still sell it as #2?

At this point I'm just curious. As soon as I get home I'll give it a shot of Power Service and worry no more /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[gerard]

John MIller got it all right. The problem with cutting with kerosene is the lower sulfur which is where the diesel gets a lot of the lubrication properties so I wouldn't run straight kerosene for that reason. That said it would seem even a 50/50 blend will have less lubricity than a straight diesel. For those reasons I don't worry about what the mix is, I just add a power service type additive and don't worry about it. (Course I pump right out of my home fuel oil tank so I don't know if they use a winter mix or not)

 

[MikePA]

<font color=blue>Course I pump right out of my home fuel oil tank</font color=blue>

How?

 

[TerryinMD]

gerald,

As I stick my fingers in my ear and cover my eyes.

<font color=red>I pump right out of my home fuel oil tank so I don't know if they use a winter mix or not</font color=red>

I did not read, see, hear this on this forum.

la-la-la-la-laaaaaa /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Terry

 

[gerard]

Tank is in garage. Just bought a $20 hand pump suitable for petroleum products. The tanks are fitted with a standard 2inch bung hole so it just drops in the top and screws on. I just pump out what I need and don't have to lug the 5 gal can to the gas station. + the fuel's about $.30/gal cheaper due to no road taxes.

 

[MikePA]

Ah...My oil tank is in my basement, within sight of the furnace. I can hear the service man now as he gazes at the hand pump sticking out of the top of the tank. /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

 

[gerard]

Are you refering to the tax situation?? The fuel is for a tractor which is not over the road and not subject to the road taxes anyway. If I bought at a gas station I could keep the receipts and apply to the tax dept for a refund but thats a LOT of work for a few bucks. (Course I couldn't legally put it in an over the road vehicle but I don't have one of those that use diesel anyway......

 

[gerard]

Still don't see the problem Mike. I pump into a 5 gal container "cause my rollbar won't let me drive the tractor into the garage. You could do the same thing if the PA laws are like NY. Home fuel oil is the same thing they sell as "farm diesel", ie dyed red. Just not supposed to be used in anything that travels over the road. Perfectly legal for farm use and since I don't take my bota down to town too much.........../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[MikePA]

No problem from a legal standpoint...just a problem with the length of hose I'd need to reach from the tank to the closest point I could get the tractor. We used to have the tank outside and when we remodeled (removed aluminum siding to reveal old logs and chinking), we installed a new tank in the basement. The one that was outside was in pretty bad shape, particularly the bottom.

 

[ejb]

Is it truly the exact same thing? I thought there were additives in one or the other that would make it less than desireable (but still possible) to interchange the two...