Winter oil

[unit40]

Hey guys, I have the 3TNV76 Yanmar diesel in my Deere tractor. After the first 50 hours, I replaced the oil with Deere Plus-50 15W-40 oil, which I ran all summer until now. My concern was whether this oil is OK for the winter or if I would be better putting in a lighter 5W-30 oil for the winter, because it can get pretty cold up here in the northeast. Does anyone have any comments about the Deere Plus-50 0W-40 oil for winter or even year round use?

 

[Sully2]

Hey guys, I have the 3TNV76 Yanmar diesel in my Deere tractor. After the first 50 hours, I replaced the oil with Deere Plus-50 15W-40 oil, which I ran all summer until now. My concern was whether this oil is OK for the winter or if I would be better putting in a lighter 5W-30 oil for the winter, because it can get pretty cold up here in the northeast. Does anyone have any comments about the Deere Plus-50 0W-40 oil for winter or even year round use?

Why not run the 0W-40 or a 5W-40 oil year round.???

If the rig sits outside in the winter and can get really cold..Id think 15W-40 might be a tad thick for firing it up. Most of these things dont have super powerful batterys and starters on them.

 

[frank_miller]

Why not run the 0W-40 or a 5W-40 oil year round.???

If the rig sits outside in the winter and can get really cold..Id think 15W-40 might be a tad thick for firing it up. Most of these things dont have super powerful batterys and starters on them.

I have used 15w-40 in winter and 5w-30 in winters (northeast). The 5w30 will yeld a slight increase in start heat, mpg etc but they are close, in synthetic oil (grp 4/5) world. Either or is fine. I think JD oils are WAY overpriced though.

 

[Z-Michigan]

You would be OK running 15W-40 year round in the Massachusetts climate. I think my JD manual says it's OK down to 0.

However, I just replaced oil in my JD with a fully synthetic 5W-40, which is at least as good if not better in summer, and better in winter because it flows better at low temps. I used Shell Rotella-T synthetic which is $16.50 at wally-world in my area. Comparable quality synthetic oils with an appropriate diesel rating (CI-4+ is your best bet) are available from Mobil 1 and Amsoil, and probably several others too.

 

[frank_miller]

Comparable is in the eyes of the UOA here.

 

[unit40]

Most of my tractor use is spring through fall, and my dealer recommended the plus-50 oil, which I was OK with. But Deere claims that using their plus-50 oil extends or doubles service intervals. I wouldn't go that long. The fully synthetic 0W-40 plus-50 oil must be a complete all season oil then? I believe Yanmar requires a CC or CF oil for this engine, which in most cases is pretty much run-of-the-mill motor oil. I just thought the 15W-40 was more of a mild/hot weather oil and not as ideal for colder climates as a lighter oil. What are the benefits of running with the plus-50 brand, are the claims and marketing just hype or is it actually a good product?

 

[elad]

I run Rotella 5w40 synthetic oil year around in my 2004 John Deere 4110.
Never had any problems of any kind. Just my experience. elad

 

[Z-Michigan]

I believe Yanmar requires a CC or CF oil for this engine, which in most cases is pretty much run-of-the-mill motor oil.

CC and CF are extremely dated oil specs. For reasons I don't understand, manufacturers sometimes spec dated specs on new equipment. I personally would use a CI-4+ oil in any diesel engine that uses "C" type oils, except one that requires CJ rated oil (2007+ highway engines, mostly). In fact, this is what I do - I use CI-4+ oil in the two diesels I own, and when I had it, I also used it in a 3rd diesel I had (Jeep Liberty CRD; don't buy one unless you're a mechanic).

Most of my tractor use is spring through fall, and my dealer recommended the plus-50 oil, which I was OK with. But Deere claims that using their plus-50 oil extends or doubles service intervals. I wouldn't go that long. The fully synthetic 0W-40 plus-50 oil must be a complete all season oil then? *** What are the benefits of running with the plus-50 brand, are the claims and marketing just hype or is it actually a good product?

If you want to double your change intervals without voiding the warranty, that's the main benefit to me. I have a JD still within its 1st year and I switched to Rotella-T. I'm not going to wait more than 12 months between changes, and there's little chance I'll exceed 250 hours in 12 months, so for me there is no benefit to the longer rated change interval.

The 0W-40 or 5W-40 would be a year round oil. In your climate even th 15W-40 would likely work year round, though not as well at low temps. Once the oil is warmed up it's equally good, it's the cold start and sluggish flow at freezing temps that is the problem.

I'm certain the JD oil is a quality product, but I haven't checked its price and I assume it is spendy. I would rather have a 3rd party oil that I change annually. If my assumption is wrong and the JD oil costs the same as other brands, I would definitely go with it.

 

[unit40]

Another factor regarding the winter oil on this engine, is that I believe that it is an oil lubricated pump and not a fuel lubricated pump. I may have read this somewhere from a Yanmar rep quoted in an article. I wonder if this is true then maybe the type of oil is important, and lubricity additives in the fuel may not be as important. I may put about 100 hrs./yr on the machine, so an annual change would be in order. If that is the case, spending a lot on 2.5 qts of a quality oil is fine with me. I guess I should read up on the forum here and see what everybodys favorites are. Probably will find plenty of opinions. Thanks

 

[MikePA]

For reasons I don't understand, manufacturers sometimes spec dated specs on new equipment.

Don't you think it's more likely manufacturers simply do not update their documentation each time a new spec comes out?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Don't you think it's more likely manufacturers simply do not update their documentation each time a new spec comes out?

Yeah, that's quite possible, but ridiculously lazy and sloppy.

 

[dmccarty]

Its time to do a bunch of fluid/filter changes on the JD so this week I was getting my list togather and checking it twice. The F350 needs new coolant and it looks like the JD CoolGard meets the spec so I'll be getting it as well as oil filters from the JD dealer.

I have looked at the JD 0w40 oil in the past but it was ubber expensive like other comparable oils so I stayed away. The wifey buys the Shell 5w40 at WallyWorld and she says the price has gotten up to $20 per gallon.....

So I asked the guy I bought the tractor from for a price on a five gallon bucket of JD 0w40 oil. Told him I would be sitting down when I read his email with the price.

It was around $210ish. That is pretty close to the Shell price so he ordered me a bucket. We would have driven up to the dealer today but he won't have the oil until Friday.

I just changed the truck's oil so must of the bucket will sit for a few months but a gallon is going into the JD 4700. The DR Mower has been fed a synthetic as well but I can't remember if it is a 30 or 40 weight oil. Hope it will run 40 so I can just keep on oil on hand.

Part of the list was a pump to get the oil out of the five gallon buckets. I have 10 gallons of hydrulic fluid to fill and its cheaper by the bucket than the gallon jug.

One of the primary reasons for me using the 5w40 is the cold weather starts. It seldom gets in the teens down here but even in the 30s the truck starts much easier on 5w40 oil than 15w40. I used to hook up the engine block heater on cold nights to help start the truck. But that was expensive, 1500 watt heater running for 4 hours at .10 per KW for 30 days is $18 per month to heat the truck! Our electric bill without heating the truck averages $120 per month so another $18 would be "big" increase.

The savings in power more than pay the price difference of synthetic over dino oil.

Later,
Dan

 

[cp1969]

$210/5 gal = $42/gal

 

[dmccarty]

$210/5 gal = $42/gal

Sorry typeo on my part. Should have been $110/5 gallon bucket.

Later,
Dan

 

[GarthH]

A while back one of oil mfgs did a photo of the different grades flowing at about -25; then basically held the bottle over a beaker then compared how much came out. The 15w40 after the time period, I think 30 seconds had still not reached the beaker. The 5w30 had about 1/2 inch in the beaker and the 0w40 was a couple inches. The test I think is a fair comparison of how your oil moves in your engine. The pump moves it to the top but the 15w40 just sits until the engine produces some heat. In Canada we almost always use block heaters but even then I've been 0W40 for years. Its way better for your engine on cold startups.

Technically (I suspect Z-michigan) will be able to explain better than I, but the flow of both the 15w40 and the 0w40 once warmed up will be the same. I've been told how this concept works but I still don't believe the flow of a 15w product can be the same as a 40w product - I suspect that is why I couldn't be an oil engineer.

Trust me the cost of the oil is so small its worth the extra cost. Engine wear is way more serious, we just don't see it like we miss the money.

Garth

 

[Egon]

Those block heater sure do make a difference. Its nice to hear an engine start and not clatter and bang for a few minutes before it smooths out.

Do you recall those days with a standard transmission when you had to wait a while till you could move the shifter?

 

[KICK]

Another factor regarding the winter oil on this engine, is that I believe that it is an oil lubricated pump and not a fuel lubricated pump. I may have read this somewhere from a Yanmar rep quoted in an article.

what they mean with that is that on the fuel injection pump the driven parts like the gears to the engine and the bottom part of the pump are lubed by engine oil. pretty common really but the part of the inj pump that presurizes the fuel is still lubricated with fuel.

they are pretty much all like that if the are some type of distributor type pump.

nothing to think about or worry about as far as what kind of oil you use.

 

[unit40]

I just hunted down my slip from earlier this season. I paid $13 plus change for a gallon jug of JD 15W-40 plus-50 oil from the dealer.

 

[Z-Michigan]

Technically (I suspect Z-michigan) will be able to explain better than I, but the flow of both the 15w40 and the 0w40 once warmed up will be the same. I've been told how this concept works but I still don't believe the flow of a 15w product can be the same as a 40w product - I suspect that is why I couldn't be an oil engineer.

I'll try to rise to the challenge. I have no credentials in the oil field, I just do a lot of reading. The common ratings like 5W-30 or 15W-40 are a dated idea, IMHO. The idea is that when cold, it flows like the first number, and when up to operating temp it has the viscosity (thickness) like an oil with the straight weight of the second number. The "W" stands for winter, meaning the oil is, based on a very dated view of the world, suitable for winter use (20W-50 has this rating, but hardly anyone would use it for winter operations!). Viscosity is thickness - it is a proxy for film strength to prevent metal to metal contact, but it is not a direct indicator of that strength, and as oil chemistry has improved there are thinner and thinner oils that give more than enough film strength to prevent wear under high loads.

A big problem with this is that the rated viscosities are ranges rather than precise numbers, and two different brands of 5W-30 oil can act significantly differently. Also, while you would think that anything that starts 5W- would be roughly equal in cold flow, and anything that ends in -40 would be roughly equal in hot viscosity, that isn't the case if you read the oil makers' own specs on their products. A 5W-40 is likely going to be thicker cold than a 5W-30, and it's also going to be thinner hot than a 15W-40. So, as usual, nothing is as easy or directly comparable as it would first appear.

Having said all that, if you use an oil that is within the manufacturer's rated options, you will be fine 99% of the time.

 

[KICK]

the W in 5w30 or 15W 40 is the oil viscosity as measured in a lab at 0 degrees F

the other higher number is measured at 212F and is the viscosity of that oil at that temp, as measured in a lab.

5w30 acts like 5weight oil at zero and 30 weight earl at 212


simple enuf.