Winter snow grooming and ATV riding

[jimgerken]

This winter was the third year I groomed trails on mine and my neighbor's land, private ATV trails, for winter ATV use. I pull the groomer behind an Apache tracked Can Am 800 4X4 Outlander. The first winter I experimented with a two wheeled cart with a stiff plastic mud flap dragging behind it. That pulled too hard once it was weighted properly to actually work. Next I tried a pc of rubber comfort mat (like you buy to stand on in your workshop, 3 feet square, lots of open holes), hitched to the tow vehicle with a cable laced thru the mat diagonaly and looped back, with added blades bolted underneath to keep the mat tracking straight, and about 15 pounds added weight on top. That worked pretty well, but wasn't effective enough when the larger snows started coming. This winter I was given a used-up snowmobile track from a friend, and designed a roller-like groomer. It has evolved a bit through the season, and now works like a dream. The idea is to level and pack the snow so it sets up hard and then we can ride on the trail with 2 wheel drive sport ATVs, which is a total blast! Generally it takes two passes to get the width I am looking for (7 feet). A lot of the packing is done by the tracked ATV itself, and the groomer/roller fills in the gap between the ATV tracks. Here is a groomer rig pic I took recently.

 

[jimgerken]

More pics showing details of groomer, and one showing results of a single pass in 5 inch deep snow...

 

[atgreene]

Nice!

I groom trails with my Big Boss for the local club, as well as with a few other machines. It makes gathering maple sap easier as well.

I'd rather groom than ride myself. Relaxing to go out and putter.

 

[jimgerken]

I enjoy grooming too, I travel along at about 10mph, the wildlife is almost used to me coming through so they run a little ways and stop and watch me go by, I stay warmer due to the machine's heat and slow travel speed, and its fun to see the progress of the trail condition. However, the next day, after its all set up and useable, I break out this machine, and the fun multiplies....

 

[lefty squeeker]

i want to come ride with you guys, sounds like a blast

 

[jimgerken]

What do you ride Lefty?

 

[20 20]

Did you ever check the snowmobile groomers{towable type}, they have different styles. year back we'd use anything from pallets to bed springs with some type of weight on top. I have seen some small towable home built untis that seem to work pretty good. Some year I want to get the tracks for our rhino and do the grooming, more my speed

 

[jimgerken]

I looked (internet search) at many of the small pull-types for behind snowmobiles and ATVs, and I got some ideas from the websites. The cost of those were too high for me, and they all seemed to be wanting to grade the surface smooth and then leave a really smooth troweled-like finish. I found that leaving the surface rough (like the track imprint) made it freeze deeper so it holds up better (learned from the difference between the effect of the drag mat and the roller -- the drag mat made it smooth, but didnt disturb a significant depth of snow to make a good hard base. the roller makes a deeper stronger pack and leaves it rough which helps wheeled traction somewhat). And I don't really care to grade it smooth (level the impressions), because I groom after each new snow, so it always looks great if I simply pack the new stuff. If the trails got more traffic I guess I'd have to do more of the remediation (grade to fill holes) before smoothing and packing. But so far, simply roller packing the new snow (of 3-6 inches) always brings it back to a really fun ATV surface. It also may be that our ATV rider's expectations are lower than snowmobilers. We like the little moguls and stuff, and we like a rough finish to enhance tire bite, but snowmobilers like a pristine flat surface without any ski marks on it.

 

[20 20]

Years back we'd ride all the time in the winter on ATV's. Then came the POLITICS ! The clubs blamed the ATV's for tearing up trails{horse dung}. The hot head sled owners where causing way more damage, I owned both at the time. Most folks realized the issues but the clubs had the power. To make a long story short it caused a lot of local land being closed because of the BS from the clubs . I owned a 350 polaris ATV and made a set of skys for the front{off an old snowmobile} this was back in 92. We would ride miles each trip, leave in the morning and get back late at night, 12:00pm or later.

 

[lefty squeeker]

What do you ride Lefty?

i've got an arctic cat 700efi, the wife's is a 'cat 400, and an older kodiak for guests. and of course the massey. pic in my signature is from our christmas snow storm, about 8" at out place with good drifts to blast thru.

 

[jimgerken]

I have had a couple requests for more info on the groomer, so here aer a few more pics of its construction:

 

[jimmyj]

Very cool. Thanks for resurrecting this thread.

 

[jimgerken]

I started this weekend to build an up-dated version of the roller groomer. The one I showed in earlier pics was only 31 inches wide, and would occasionally try to flip upside down in deep snow on sidehills. It needs to be wider. So the new one is based on three rollers, for a total of 47 inches wide. Also, the shaft eventually bent a little on the small roller so this larger one, having a longer span, needed to be a lot stronger. I built what I call a "3D bar truss" out of solid bar stock inside the roller assembly. It picked up a lot of weight doing this so I probably won't have to add weights once its done. Also, I am leaving space inside the front of the frame area, to later add some more grader sections like a sled drag groomer has. I am being careful to bolt (instead of weld) a lot of stuff as it is still experimental.
Part of the reason for wanting it wider is that I will be pulling it with a JD Gator with tracks. Width between the Gator tracks will be almost 4 feet, so a groomer 4 feet wide pulled behind the tracked Gator will really make a superhighway in one pass. Like about 6 feet wide overall!!! The Gator has more power than the ATV had due to gearing, and is built a lot heavier duty. I have to adapt the tracks to it by fabricating some plates and brackets to mount the anti-flip arms to connect from tracks to Gator lower A-arms. The tracks I kept from the CanAm, they are Apache model.
I can maybe get some pictures on here soon.

 

[atgreene]

Here's a few pics of the groomer I've been using the last couple years as well as the groomer behind my Kubota. Early season grooming goes much better behind the tractor until we have enough snow to work with. Also a couple stuck pics.

 

[jimgerken]

Wow! Wish we had as much snow as your pics show. This year is really slim so far. I assume you are grooming for snowmobile traffic, judging by the sled groomer you are using. Pulling it with the tractor in early season is a good idea. I bet the loader comes in handy for trees etc.
I finished the basic roller and chassis yesterday at 3 pm, and went out and pulled it over about 8 miles of trail by dark. Nothing broke, and I hit some big darn rocks in places too, that had the roller jumping off the ground. We have only about six inches of snow on the ground now. The Gator is still on wheels and tires, so I let the air pressure down to 8 from normal 15 psi in the Big Horn tires, and went for it. It pulled it very well in FWD. Occasionally I would lock up the rear axle for extreme uphill stretches. Once the tracks are on, the effective gearing is changed to make the rig slower so it gains power somewhat. The traks take some power too of course, but should make up for that with great traction and flotation. I traveled an average of about 7mph, which worked well for the roller action. Any faster and the snow just flies too much and the roller leaves less of a nice imprint pattern in the snow. Any slower is too boring.
I will add more weight to the chassis after I am able to get the tracks on the Gator. For now it is heavy enough, but could do more imprinting for a deeper freeze if it weighed more. And with the tracks, I can pull more weight. Also, I have room in the frame for some more tools to mount, and have some ideas and lots of scrap items to choose from, so that will evolve.
Pics soon hopefully.

 

[jimgerken]

Heads up! After researching the tracks on the Gator idea, I learned that the ATV tracks were too small for the Gator, so have decided to sell them. Camoplast actually supplies two different sprocket sizes with their track kits for the Gator, an 18 and 17 tooth. This way, the Gator back-to-front differential is defeated and the front pulls just as hard as the rear. Simply putting tracks on that had the same sprocket sizes, like my CanAm Apache track kit has, would make the rear tracks do all the work and the front just drag along, on a Gator that is. The Apache tracks work fune on a ATV that has no back-to-front differential. So the tracks are for sale cheap ($2k). And the new wider roller is not as neatly finished with paint and a stainless steel fender like the original one, but it is working. so the original rolller groomer shown in the pics in this thread is also for sale ($350). I guess if my Gator goes on tracks, it will have to be new UTV tracks from Camoplast.