Wiring 220V compressor

Junkman · Jan 17, 2004

OK..... I am going to go out on a limb and hopefully you don't consider this a flame. Anytime you do an electrical job that doesn't conform to the National Electrical Code or the code that is in effect for the jurisdiction that you live, you are in violation. It doesn't matter what or how you label it. If it doesn't comply with the regulations, you are putting your homeowners insurance in jeopardy. If there is a fire, the cause of the fires doesn't have to be what you did that was improper for the insurance company to give you a hassle. I don't understand why people want to always re invent the wheel rather than to spend the extra few dollars to do the job right. I would guess that he paid at least $500 for the compressor and what is another $30 - $50 in material (if it is even that much) to do the correct wiring job the first time. It always amazes me that if a person took their car in to have it repaired and the technician did a patch job that was not up to standard, the person would be as upset as a wet hen. Then they themselves will go home and do a dangerous or substandard electrical job on the electrical system of their home that can lead to a fire or worse and consider it OK. You wouldn't accept a hack job from your tractor dealer, so why is it that you will do a hack job that will endanger your home and family. My family is worth more to me than any tractor out there, your should be to you also. Electrical wiring is not that difficult to do if you buy the $5.00 book and read it. If understanding what has to be done to do the job correctly is beyond your ability, then leave the job to a professional. Your life and your families lives depend on a safe home. Don't risk their lives to save a couple of dollars... If you don't understand the principles of electricity, then keep your hands out of the electrical panel. It would cost about $150 - $200 (my guess) to have a licensed electrician do the job. It will cost your family about $6000 to bury you if you get yourself electricuted because you didn't know what you are doing. Do the math.... Is your life worth the savings??

yellowdog99502 · Jan 17, 2004

( If they were truly "experts" they'd be working for me.)

Hey, don't be getting greedy on me, you can't have them all, I need a few over here too ya know!

And Junkman, if you're really worried about that limb, don't be, we've got NFPA 70, NEMA and IBEW to bolster it up.

This has probably been beat enough, later. . . . .

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 17, 2004

Thanks for injecting the note of safety in this and other electrical threads. You and 507 have repeatedly identified concerns with unsafe practices and suffered abuse as a result. Don't be discouraged and keep up the good work.

Lazy · Jan 17, 2004

Hi

Every person should make sure at least one of their friends is a retired Electrician.

Charlie

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 17, 2004

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Charlie, good advice, that would sure come in handy. BTW nice picture /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gifand welcome to TBN, you can see we need a good electrician.

OhioTC18 · Jan 17, 2004

I guess Bill AKA Volksfolks is still down at Home Depot trying to find the right "pigtail" to connect his compressor. One post and not heard from since.

Phred · Jan 17, 2004

Junkman,

No ofense taken. In fact I agree with you.
I am just pointing out how it could be done and not cause a fire and or shock anyone. I never said it would meet code.

You will note in my message I pointed out that it was not the smart way to do this, and yes I agree one should always wire to code. If nothing else to not give your insurance company any excuses, not to meantion the safety of your family.

I am just saying that if anyone is determined to do this don't tie the neutral and ground togheter and don't run a 15 amp compressor on a 30 amp breaker.

Fred

Junkman · Jan 18, 2004

( Hi

Every person should make sure at least one of their friends is a retired Electrician.

Charlie )

Charlie.......... where have you been all these years.... I haven't seen you in a dogs age... I see in my magic ball, that you are planning a road trip to CT. Don't forget to let me know when you are arriving. I will have the coffee, donuts, wire and boxes waiting for you... glad to see that you are still with us. Hear that you were a "live wire" at the plant... till then.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Junkman · Jan 18, 2004

Phred..... no ophphence meant..... phine with me that we both agree.. My pheeling are not hurt.... by the way, whats with the "Ph" ????? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif (Just me joking) /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Hope that you are not /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

MikePA · Jan 18, 2004

you can see we need a good electrician. 
Charlie makes the second electrician on TBN that I am aware of. Jerry, Inspector507, is an electrical inspector.

Junkman · Jan 18, 2004

Don't forget AndyMA.... he is an electrical engineer.... but I am not sure if that means that he knows how to operate electric trains

TWINKLE_TOES · Jan 18, 2004

Whoops, should have said we need another good electrician No offense intended to the other electricians. BTW Mike who did I miss?

MikePA · Jan 18, 2004

BTW Mike who did I miss? 
 Jerry, Inspector507, is an electrical inspector.

Phred · Jan 18, 2004

Junkman,

Fred is always taken so....
Phred.

You have to watch those EEs, clearly they can't be trusted... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Fred

CTyler · Jan 19, 2004

Hello...

Yea I get a little touchy sometimes and here's a brief on why.
There were several things assumed. He talked to the"Expert" at Home Depot. Now I don't know if he meant that as a joke or not. Some folks there are knowledgeable others are not. I assumed that the "Expert" gave him some advise and he wanted to confirm the wiring. I also assumed some very basic electrical knowledge. I then went stated in a another post how to do it safely and what is typically done. Then your post comes along lamb basting everything.

I have nothing against people preaching safety. I try to make it a habbit of asking "Is what I am doing safe?".

I'm not P.O.ed or anything, just needed to clear the air is all.

Have a good day.
Chris

bxbuster · Jan 22, 2004

This is an interesting thread. I guess you learn something everyday. So, if I read this right, it is illegal to use a plug that is over rated for the circuit? I cannot put a 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit? How about a 20 amp switch on a 15 amp circuit? I have never heard of this. Thanks for the information!

bxbuster · Jan 22, 2004

Interesting enough it appears that to be code compliant you can install a 50 amp outlet with a 50 amp breaker and use only a 10 gauge wire if the outlet is to be used by a welder? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif If you want to read it for yourself, it is pages 785 to 788 of the 1999 National Electrical Code book. The NEC is written by the National Fire Protection Association. I believe that they know what they are doing!!!
Thanks again for all contributors to this thread.

johnbilt · Jan 22, 2004

Hi

Section 630 of the NEC is for Electric Welders. I checked my 1999 copy and see that they allow a calculation based on duty cycle to determine an adequate supply wire size. I don't see where it specifies a #10 conductor as stated above. Perhaps there is another reference in a separate section.

I suppose that this could apply to a plant setup where multiple welders are being used.

But why would I derate my own shop setup, and introduce a significant voltage drop ?? Just to save $10 in wire ?? I use #6, rated at the full 50A service, with the proper grounds. It works great and I sleep well at night !!

Just my opinion /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

John

fractal · Feb 8, 2004

( My compressor only has places for 3 wires. I was told by the "expert" at Home Depot to wire the green and white wires together and put them on the green spade.)

That expert is wrong. Very wrong.

The white (neutral in the us) and green wire (ground in us) should be connected one place and only one place and that is at the service entrance panel.

I am not an electrician but I seem to recall the NEC specifically prohibiting using dual mode 120/240 outlets for 240 only appliances. I have no clue why, but I have been told that it is prohibited.

If you want to do it right, then I would suggest the same thing that the others have recommended, running a dedicated 240/15 or 240/20 outlet for the compressor.

On the other hand, let's remember who wrote the NEC and what its job is. It was written by firemen who don't want to see your house go up in smoke. The 30 amp circuit breaker on your dryer circuit is there to protect the wiring inside the wall to ensure it does not overheat and catch fire. Honestly, it is. That circuit breaker is not there to protect your appliances. It is there to protect the wiring and connectors. Connecting a 15 amp appliance to a 30 amp circuit "should" present no hazard. After all, how many of us plug in lamps wired with 18 guage wire (rated at about 6 amps) into a 20 amp standard wall outlet? You put a partial short in the lamp and the wire / plug will melt before the circuit breaker pops..