Wiring diagram for a Toro 8-32 Professional riding mower

jpilk99 · Jun 11, 2020

Hi,

I'm working on an 'older' Toro (not exactly sure how old - looks like the one Forest Gump mowed with

) 8-32 "Professional" and can't get the machine to spark. Model # 56150 and serial number 9000001 - 9999999.

At first, I thought it was simply the ignition coil (or magneto) so I got a new one. Still no signal being sent to spark plug. I have followed the instructions of having the mower deck disengaged, the key turned "on" and the parking brake "on", pull the recoil starter and ...no spark.

Then found the switch that is engaged when the mower deck is disengaged is broken, I jumped it --- so that shouldn't be the issue.

Then found the switch on the transmission that ...must be telling the machine when it's in Neutral, and did a continuity test both in neutral and not and each time the switch was open. So I jumped (closed) that one.

Still no spark.

Looking at wiring harness. Disconnected harness at back of starter/key switch and it's a rusty mess. Going to buy new one now. Going to clean all connector-ends of wiring harness and put on the new starter/key switch.

What's interesting is that the starter/key switch, with me sitting in the seat, engages the Starter. Still no spark.

Thinking that Something in the wiring assembly is open or closed and telling the ignition coil NOT to send ...current to spark plug. Can anyone help? Even a wiring diagram?

Thank you.

Jay

CobyRupert · Jun 11, 2020

Are there magnets on a flywheel?

CobyRupert · Jun 11, 2020

Hopefully this link works (diagram on page 25):
https://www.toro.com/getpub/8571

jpilk99 · Jun 11, 2020

CobyRupert said:
Are there magnets on a flywheel?

Yes. Mighty strong ones.

jpilk99 · Jun 11, 2020

CobyRupert said:
Hopefully this link works (diagram on page 25):
https://www.toro.com/getpub/8571

Unfortunately, that link doesn't "open" anything.

CobyRupert · Jun 11, 2020

jpilk99 said:
Unfortunately, that link doesn't "open" anything.

Strange. When I click on it, I get this manual:

jpilk99 · Jun 11, 2020

CobyRupert said:
Strange. When I click on it, I get this manual:
View attachment 659401
View attachment 659402

Ultra strange - I see it now ...on my phone

. Thank you. I値l start trying to map the schematic to what I知 experiencing with the machine.

Just weird that nothing I try works. Even Disconnecting the 徒ill wire from the coil.

This is a confusing one. Thanks again.

Jay

pmsmechanic · Jun 12, 2020

Are you checking for spark in the evening or in low light conditions. In bright daylight it's hard to see a spark. Pull the plug and lay it on the engine. With the spark plug wire hooked up and the spark plug in a shadow you should be able to see a spark. Did you check the points? They are under the flywheel on older B&S engines. Newer ones are electronic and they have a magnetic trigger on one leg of the coil. Are the flywheel magnets clean and shinny? Same for the legs of the coil. Is the coil gap good? Sometimes there is a piece of paper with replacement coils for that purpose. A piece of electricians tape on the flywheel works too.

The engine stops by the kill wire grounding out the coil. The key off position grounds out the coil so if you remove the kill wire there should be spark.

Does the engine have enough compression? If you hold a finger in the spark plug hole and crank the engine and your finger gets blown out of the hole then there is enough compression. Sometimes you need to file a bit of metal out of between the lifter and the valve. You don't need to remove the valve. Just lift the valve up enough to be able to slip the file in between.

jpilk99 · Jun 12, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Are you checking for spark in the evening or in low light conditions. In bright daylight it's hard to see a spark. Pull the plug and lay it on the engine. With the spark plug wire hooked up and the spark plug in a shadow you should be able to see a spark. Did you check the points? They are under the flywheel on older B&S engines. Newer ones are electronic and they have a magnetic trigger on one leg of the coil. Are the flywheel magnets clean and shinny? Same for the legs of the coil. Is the coil gap good? Sometimes there is a piece of paper with replacement coils for that purpose. A piece of electricians tape on the flywheel works too.

The engine stops by the kill wire grounding out the coil. The key off position grounds out the coil so if you remove the kill wire there should be spark.

Does the engine have enough compression? If you hold a finger in the spark plug hole and crank the engine and your finger gets blown out of the hole then there is enough compression. Sometimes you need to file a bit of metal out of between the lifter and the valve. You don't need to remove the valve. Just lift the valve up enough to be able to slip the file in between.

Thanks pmsmechanic. Sadly, (even though I've repaired close to 1000 'small engines' and rebuild cars), I am only understanding half of what you said.

I had the idiot light in a shadow and a helper checking and there was no light. Haven't done the other test of the plug again the block, but, with no light ...there's no point. The test light works fine on my other mower.

I don't believe this machine has points, it's a 1989.

The magnets on flywheel/rotor(?) I scrubbed with wire brush. Wouldn't say they're shiny but they look ultra clean.

Brand new coil/magneto(?)/stator(?) and ...having done dozens of these, I believe I gapped it correctly. I let it slam up against the magnets and then backed em off just enough to allow flywheel to spin past without impingement.

Have tested the kill wire off, as well as on - and with all switches, 1 by 1, jumped. No spark.

Bought new starter/key switch and cleaned wiring connector to it. No spark.

Compression feels good, but, ....that shouldn't have anything to do with getting a spark or not, should it?

I'm flummoxed.

pmsmechanic · Jun 12, 2020

Everything you've done sounds good to me.

If there is no wire coming out from under the flywheel or anywhere else then there are no points.

The only thing I can think of at this point is that the new magneto/coil that you bought is no good. Can you remove one from a running engine and try that?

If you remove the kill wire from the coil you've removed anything that can keep the engine from sparking so then the new coil should work.

I don't think I have a spare coil laying around or I'd take a picture and post it.

What brand/model of engine are you working on? I might be telling you totally the wrong information too.

jpilk99 · Jun 12, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Everything you've done sounds good to me.

If there is no wire coming out from under the flywheel or anywhere else then there are no points.

The only thing I can think of at this point is that the new magneto/coil that you bought is no good. Can you remove one from a running engine and try that?

If you remove the kill wire from the coil you've removed anything that can keep the engine from sparking so then the new coil should work.

I don't think I have a spare coil laying around or I'd take a picture and post it.

What brand/model of engine are you working on? I might be telling you totally the wrong information too.

Thanks so much PMS

. It's an 8 HP Briggs engine, "Industrial/Commercial" or "I/C". Model 193707 and Type 0307-01. The old coil 'looked' good, but, that don't mean nuthin. I have a hard time picturing that the new one would be a dud. Possible, but, I've not had that happen.

I'm going to take the coil off, clean the snot out of everything (magnets, connection point(s) of coil, ...anything) and then re-install it. Am I correct that you want the coil as close as possible to rotor/fly-wheel without touching? Or is there a certain gap, like a spark plug, that it should be back from the magnets? I honestly just try to orient the new in the exact same position/proximity as old....

Maybe I'll upload some more pics. Thanks so much.

Jay

jpilk99 · Jun 12, 2020

jpilk99 said:
Thanks so much PMS . It's an 8 HP Briggs engine, "Industrial/Commercial" or "I/C". Model 193707 and Type 0307-01. The old coil 'looked' good, but, that don't mean nuthin. I have a hard time picturing that the new one would be a dud. Possible, but, I've not had that happen.

I'm going to take the coil off, clean the snot out of everything (magnets, connection point(s) of coil, ...anything) and then re-install it. Am I correct that you want the coil as close as possible to rotor/fly-wheel without touching? Or is there a certain gap, like a spark plug, that it should be back from the magnets? I honestly just try to orient the new in the exact same position/proximity as old....

Maybe I'll upload some more pics (1st pic is after tightening up gap, 2nd was original gap, 3rd is cleaned magnet face of rotor). Thanks so much.

Jay

Got a wire brush drill bit and scrubbed the magnet surface on the rotor til shiny clean. (Wasn't really dirty before). Took picture of coil and the gap, maybe 1/16", and tightened it to ...half that. Still no spark.

What the heck?

Confirmed the test light works on other small engine. Did the 'pull plug out put in ignition wire and hold to block while trying to start'... nothing.

jpilk99 · Jun 12, 2020

jpilk99 said:
Got a wire brush drill bit and scrubbed the magnet surface on the rotor til shiny clean. (Wasn't really dirty before). Took picture of coil and the gap, maybe 1/16", and tightened it to ...half that. Still no spark.

What the heck?

Confirmed the test light works on other small engine. Did the 'pull plug out put in ignition wire and hold to block while trying to start'... nothing.

And, I just grabbed my ohm-meter and tested the old coil and there's no continuity from end of ignition wire where it plugs onto spark plug and body of coil where it bolts to engine. Same test on new coil and it's around 2.30 resistance, which I"m told is proper....

Someone suggested flywheel may have jumped over key holding it onto crank (if you will). I have no idea why this POS won't spark now. Killing me

pmsmechanic · Jun 12, 2020

Your pictures all look good to me. It's the way I would do it. There is supposed to be a certain gap which I don't remember. I've always assumed that the closer the gap made for a stronger spark.

If the flywheel had broken the key and slipped on the crankshaft you should still get a spark. Just not at the right time. Are you brave enough to hold onto the coil wire, spin the engine over and see if there is any tickle there at all? I used to test out in the field by holding a piece of grass about two inches from the spark plug and pulling the rope. If I got a light tickle the spark was good. Your mileage may vary on that idea. I have very dry skin and can hold a live 120 volt wire without feeling anything.

Here's some info from B&S. Maybe this will help. There is a link to testing coils on this page.
How do I repair ignition problems? | Briggs & Stratton

This is a picture of a B&S coil. Probably not the right one but I just wanted to point out that the round silver "button" between the two legs of the coil is the trigger for the spark. I believe all new coils come like this. The older coils don't have it but can be converted to electronic.

jpilk99 · Jun 12, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Your pictures all look good to me. It's the way I would do it. There is supposed to be a certain gap which I don't remember. I've always assumed that the closer the gap made for a stronger spark.

If the flywheel had broken the key and slipped on the crankshaft you should still get a spark. Just not at the right time. Are you brave enough to hold onto the coil wire, spin the engine over and see if there is any tickle there at all? I used to test out in the field by holding a piece of grass about two inches from the spark plug and pulling the rope. If I got a light tickle the spark was good. Your mileage may vary on that idea. I have very dry skin and can hold a live 120 volt wire without feeling anything.

Here's some info from B&S. Maybe this will help. There is a link to testing coils on this page.
How do I repair ignition problems? | Briggs & Stratton

View attachment 659474

This is a picture of a B&S coil. Probably not the right one but I just wanted to point out that the round silver "button" between the two legs of the coil is the trigger for the spark. I believe all new coils come like this. The older coils don't have it but can be converted to electronic.

Thanks so much for you help here! I may try the "tickle" test, but, I"m 99% there ain't nuthin coming out of the spark plug other than my sadness.

That coil is identical to the one I removed, and replaced. Button and kill switch connector. I know my old one was dead as there was no continuity from ignition wire tip to coil body, whereas the new has infinite. But still no spark. I'll check that link and see what I learn.

Never had this much trouble before. Wanh!!!!

jpilk99 · Jun 13, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Your pictures all look good to me. It's the way I would do it. There is supposed to be a certain gap which I don't remember. I've always assumed that the closer the gap made for a stronger spark.

If the flywheel had broken the key and slipped on the crankshaft you should still get a spark. Just not at the right time. Are you brave enough to hold onto the coil wire, spin the engine over and see if there is any tickle there at all? I used to test out in the field by holding a piece of grass about two inches from the spark plug and pulling the rope. If I got a light tickle the spark was good. Your mileage may vary on that idea. I have very dry skin and can hold a live 120 volt wire without feeling anything.

Here's some info from B&S. Maybe this will help. There is a link to testing coils on this page.
How do I repair ignition problems? | Briggs & Stratton

View attachment 659474

This is a picture of a B&S coil. Probably not the right one but I just wanted to point out that the round silver "button" between the two legs of the coil is the trigger for the spark. I believe all new coils come like this. The older coils don't have it but can be converted to electronic.

OH MY GAHHHHHD. I'M AN IDIOT.

I had the coil on UPSIDE DOWN!!!! Running find now. Very sorry my stupidity wasted y'alls time. Thank you kindly for the guidance.

Jay

pmsmechanic · Jun 13, 2020

Hey we all have moments we aren't proud of. Just maybe something in this thread will help someone through their frustrating times.

jpilk99 · Jun 19, 2020

pmsmechanic said:
Hey we all have moments we aren't proud of. Just maybe something in this thread will help someone through their frustrating times.

This could be another one of those "we all have moments we aren't proud of", but, after getting things running pretty well, mowing, etc. I thought that the machine would run better with a carb cleaning. So, I took pictures of everything prior to removal, then took off carb, cleaned, and now reinstalling ...and the throttle linkage popped off wherever it was anchored ---- AND I CAN'T FIND WHAT THAT ANCHOR IS?

What an arse! Can anyone shed light on where that butt end of the throttle linkage goes? It's somehow sitting (hiding) behind the choke/throttle arm adjustment mechanism --- conveniently out of sight on every picture I took.