twoone
Silver Member
I agree Just be sure to buy the correct size and a american made one as well as an american relay company. Hay by the way if your ever out this way I'ed like to have a Lemonade with you. Paul
Soundguy
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would be nice if we actually had some american manufacturing still. too much is overseas.
If we had to tool up in an emergency.. we'd be cought with our pants down bad.
soundguy
If we had to tool up in an emergency.. we'd be cought with our pants down bad.
soundguy
Soundguy
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i'd like to propose a toast! 
soundguy
soundguy
twoone
Silver Member
Hello BobbyR I really would like to get you out of your bind however I use a relay in my installations if you would like to work along with me i'll go over it step by step with you. So if your interested let me know what type lights you have decided to buy stock or aftermart and the wattage believe me the rest is simple. Paul
Soundguy
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it's simple anyway.
E=IR P=EI
there's your wattage, current and voltage. current being the variable.
size the wire for the load
size the switch for the load.
size the fuse for the WIREING
hook up.
remember.. the old 6v systems needed heavier wire for high wattage due to higher current. with 12v, your current drops thus wire size needed drops... that's why looking at a tractor wire harness you see lots of 14awg wire, and perhaps a piece of 12 or maybee 10 on the charge circuit, with the only other big conductor bing ground strapping and starter primary wires .
Again..notice there are no relays in the lamp system in the ford schematics.
Adding extra components like that just leads to more things to go wrong, and more things to troubleshoot, only in the case of modified wireing.. you don't have a wire diagram in the manula to go by, since it is not oem.
making multiple lamp runs? use a seperate 14awg line runner if you are getting close to current capabilities.. which you are probbaly using seperate anyway if you are splitting lamps front and rear.
hard to believe you can put enough lamps on an old ford to need to worry about a relay, and NOT tax the charge system. having 1000W of lmaps might sound good, untill you figure out that your charge system only is capable of about 210w of output at continous load.. and that includes any charge or ignition (gassers ) power needed. Figure 48w for ignition for a gasser, and a minimum of 36w for charge... thus.. a gasser, running at a safe rated charge rate on the oem charging circuit has 126w available for lamps and other loads. Given that tractor lamps usually come in 30, 35, and 55 w sizes.. well.. that shows you what you can do.
the common delco alt replacement, if upgraded ups your wattage from 210 available to 336, giging you about 250w available for lamps and other laods past charge and , if a gasser, ignition.
just keep all that in mind when hitting up the electrical and auto supply store for your needs and wants...
I can tell you for sure that none of my older tractors have a lighting circuit relay on them... and I actually went to school for electronics........
soundguy
E=IR P=EI
there's your wattage, current and voltage. current being the variable.
size the wire for the load
size the switch for the load.
size the fuse for the WIREING
hook up.
remember.. the old 6v systems needed heavier wire for high wattage due to higher current. with 12v, your current drops thus wire size needed drops... that's why looking at a tractor wire harness you see lots of 14awg wire, and perhaps a piece of 12 or maybee 10 on the charge circuit, with the only other big conductor bing ground strapping and starter primary wires .
Again..notice there are no relays in the lamp system in the ford schematics.
Adding extra components like that just leads to more things to go wrong, and more things to troubleshoot, only in the case of modified wireing.. you don't have a wire diagram in the manula to go by, since it is not oem.
making multiple lamp runs? use a seperate 14awg line runner if you are getting close to current capabilities.. which you are probbaly using seperate anyway if you are splitting lamps front and rear.
hard to believe you can put enough lamps on an old ford to need to worry about a relay, and NOT tax the charge system. having 1000W of lmaps might sound good, untill you figure out that your charge system only is capable of about 210w of output at continous load.. and that includes any charge or ignition (gassers ) power needed. Figure 48w for ignition for a gasser, and a minimum of 36w for charge... thus.. a gasser, running at a safe rated charge rate on the oem charging circuit has 126w available for lamps and other loads. Given that tractor lamps usually come in 30, 35, and 55 w sizes.. well.. that shows you what you can do.
the common delco alt replacement, if upgraded ups your wattage from 210 available to 336, giging you about 250w available for lamps and other laods past charge and , if a gasser, ignition.
just keep all that in mind when hitting up the electrical and auto supply store for your needs and wants...
I can tell you for sure that none of my older tractors have a lighting circuit relay on them... and I actually went to school for electronics........
soundguy
The advice on overloading the charging system is something I'd not thought too much about, but it makes very good sense because the generator my tractor has doesn't put out what an alternator would. I'll probably only have the headlights and a rear work light, as I originally intended. (no rear flashing lights). As for the relay or no relay, thanks to all who have contributed input on the question. Since there is so much controversy on it, the only thing I know to do is look at the schematics in a shop manual for my particular tractor and the application I desire, and go from there. I can see sense in what a relay would do, but I can also see sense in how properly sizing the components would do. So, being still stuck with not knowing for sure, I'll consult the shop manual, no offense to any of you!
Soundguy
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shop manual has no relay as it isn't needed for what you are wanting to do.,
oem genny is 22a MAX.. figure 17a for continous use to keep the reg and genny happy... thus the numbers I posted.
ps.. adding a rear red lamp is fine.. 2 head lamps = 110w if using the large ones, a rear work lamp on a series switch, is another 55w.. a red marker lamp will be 5-15w max..
that's 180w max.. and well within the #'s I listed.
soundguy
oem genny is 22a MAX.. figure 17a for continous use to keep the reg and genny happy... thus the numbers I posted.
ps.. adding a rear red lamp is fine.. 2 head lamps = 110w if using the large ones, a rear work lamp on a series switch, is another 55w.. a red marker lamp will be 5-15w max..
that's 180w max.. and well within the #'s I listed.
soundguy
twoone
Silver Member
I am impressed with your quote from your schools elect chapter on electrical circuits and I commend you for attending. I seem to remember the same from when I went to electronics school and agree. However, we went on to the next chapters as well and studied the principals and practicability of the use of relays on switching power as most switches can not handle the higher loads than than their rated for. I only suggested that RobertR use one as he has know Idea as to what his load is and said he blew the hole circuit including the switch which suggested that he overloaded the thing or created a direct short. By the way I backed up my education with CE's and worked and retired with 23 years as a Electrical-Avionics tech.
Soundguy
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- RK 55HC,ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC
Are you implying that I did not also graduate with my engineering degree? I hope not? because you would be wrong.
Lets look at this practically, since that seems to be the chaper you liked the most.
1, his tractor's charge system is extremely anemic. There's no point in running more load than the tractor can handle on a steady basis. Given that. lamp switches currently in production, and, well.. installed at the fatory are fine for his application.
Relays are for running less copper, and running laods impractical on switches.. IE.. you don't want a battery disconnect sized switch in the dash for lamps.
however.. dealing with the small load he has.. a regular off the shelf lamp switch will be fine.
ford engineers though so as well.
based on his application, intended load and statements.. adding a relay would just serve to spend money, and complicate the electrical system for the next time someone tries to troubleshoot it.
IMHO.. if he had a meltdown earlier.. it was misswireing, vs improper ratings. even an overloaded switch won't let the magic smoke out imediatly.. based upon the description of the failure.. I'd say it was not fused to protect the wireing either, of which, the switch rating would be a part of too.
now that's practical application... not.. how much technology can we cram into a 48 year old tractor..
soundguy