Wisdom on gun purchase please?

[cowboydoc]

Let's not take the redneck issue to heart. We all know Richard and know that he's not the kind that is going to purposely put down people. It's just a term. No big deal. We all know what he meant. I consider myself a cowboy and that word gets used in a derogatory manner quite often. It doesn't mean I take exception to it and apply the way it was used to myself.

As far as guns I would keep it simple. A nice pump would be a Remington 870. Very reliable, cheap, and easy to use. For a handgun I like a revolver. A .38 is a nice handgun that has some knockdown power and is light enough to handle easily and doesn't have alot of kick.

 

[Yankee]

Shotgun - a Mossberg 12 gauge pump. Inexpensive, easy to strip and maintain, and used as the basis for 3/4 of the military and police shotguns in the world. Reliable, even when NOT maintained. It's a cheap, rough, and primitive action - giving it its considerable virtues.

Pistol - any decent quality (i.e., major brand) 38 special or 357 double-action revolver (yes, I saw the other post recommending a single action). Revolvers store better, meaning there are fewer action and spring issues, there are fewer training issues with safeties and such as on autos, and they're fundamentally safer, IMO, in the hands of less-experienced people. You don't want less than a 38 for self-defense (or 9mm in auto) - my opinion. You can debate man-stopping statistics for larger calibers, but it gets pretty academic among the 357, the various 40's, 44 mag, and 45 ACP. Given my recommendation of a revolver, the 357 will give you reasonable size and carryability, ammunition availability (absolutely everywhere), and lots to select from (guns and loads).

Unless your local sheriff is an enthusiast, I wouldn't bother looking to him for tips. Quite honestly, though you'll find gun-savvy police anywhere, most don't know anything more about guns than the general public.

If you're not going to be shooting for sport, regularly using and maintaining your guns, I'd definitely stick with stainless steel and composite stocks.

Make sure the training you get is defense-oriented. It's completely different.

Bill

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Speaking as someone who probably has 15+ guns at any given time, let me state that I would vote right along with HAZMAT and suggest you consider moving.

Seems to me the worst thing in life you could face is constant fear. I choose to live in the country, and while I take sensible safety precautions, I live in a "safe" area where having doors unlocked is not uncommon. I would not live somewhere that made me feel unsafe. Living there would simply be feeling usafe but with a gun and the gun doesn't create a feeling of safety, it is simply a last resort.

I don't know if you can fence your property, but a heavy duty security fence might be in order if you choose to stay. After you do that, then there is a gun.

 

[RanchMan]

Lots of questions. I'll give it a shot, so to speak. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


1) <font color="blue"> Looking for ideas on gun, shotgun, training tips, concealed tips, should I contact the local Sheriff & let him know? Call him first and let HIM help me with above questions?</font>

Just because someone is in law enforcement and carries a gun doesn't mean they know much about firearms. Unfortunately most cops have very little familiarity with guns - of any type. Some do, but most don't. Your sheriff may or may not have much familiarity with firearms, so I would probably not consider him a good source to answer your questions.

It would be much better to find a firearms range that offers both basic training classes and concealed carry classes. Proper firearms safety, understanding the law and how it applies to you in your state, and teaching are their specialty - they get paid to know this stuff.

2) <font color="blue">I intend on getting a permit to carry concealed (presuming that’s allowed here). </font>

Yes, it's allowed. Here's a cusory summary of Tennessee's gun laws.

3) <font color="blue">Any thoughts as to sidearm and shotgun, ammo (and why such & such ammo). </font>

Here's where the holy war will begin on TBN. Just like tractors, there are those who have brand/type loyalty that will get in the way of objective comparison. Some ex-law enforcment guys will be dead set against one type of firearm while other ex-law enforcement guys will not. We are all a composite of our experiences, but at the same time there is hard data to consider too. That being said, here are a couple of my preferences and views on the subject.

a) Revolver/Semi-auto - Both have benefits. Period. Both have drawbacks. Period. This has been discussed ad nauseam on another thread. The best comparison I have is Gear vs. Hydro. Some will say that Hydro is the best without question while some will say gear is. Then there are those like me who say both have their place and neither is the end-all/be-all of transmission types. Same thing with Auto vs. Revolver.

Best advise here is get some training on both and find which one you like. Just realize that it may take quite a bit of time before you feel comfortable using either type. Once you have picked, train, train, train. To the point to where there is no "thinking" just instinct. You can get to that point with either type.

b) Ammo - First you have to choose the cartridge. Based on my experience, various texts I have read on the subject (LOTS of data out there), and real-world one-shot-stop numbers (i.e. compiled data from law enforcement) in a handgun cartridge, two of the top performers are .357 Mag (125gr HP) and .45ACP (Federal Hydra-shok). In a shotgun, 12ga 00 buckshot is hard to beat. There are other good loads in different calibers, but those I mentioned are known for being good performers.

c) Concealment - Smaller = easier to conceal, but you sacrifice accuracy (shorter sight radius) and sacrifice cartridge capability (either in number of shots or power/size of the cartridge you are shooting.) The one thing is that the holster can make a world of difference. With an inside the waist band type holster, you can conceal a surprisingly large weapon (i.e. higher capacity/larger cartridge/longer sight radius) quite comfortably. Of course, due to dress (i.e. tucked in shirt, etc. ) that may not be a workable holster for you which may make it necessary to go with a smaller pistol and a different setup. The best advise here is try a number of holsters and have a variety for the type of carry situation you will need it for. Most CC people I know don't have just one CC firearm. When possible, they use/wear thier main handgun, but if it can't be done, then they downsize to a smaller/more concealable gun. The reasoning is that a smaller gun is better than no gun at all.


One last piece of advise - practice (a lot - not this twice a year junk like a lot of folks - that will only get you in to trouble) and read the laws FOR YOURSELF (don't JUST rely on what others tell you - no matter how big an authority they come across as)

 

[ManofMystery]

Richard,

Choice of weapon is important, but don't gloss over the decision to use lethal force. When you talk about the intimidating sound of racking a shotgun, I'm thinking that the weapon shouldn't be displayed until you've already made the decision that the situation calls for lethal force. You need to have thought carefully about what situations you might encounter, and when lethal force is justfied.

Painful example: Drunk armed perp yelling in the front yard. Your dog attacks; perp pulls a piece and kills the dog. Will you shoot the perp? Will you walk out on the porch displaying a weapon? One way or another, a jury is going going to examine these decisions, and there's going to be a guy there who's job is to make you look like the bad guy.

Most states vary widely in the rules of GUN OWNERSHIP, but have very similar rules on the USE OF LETHAL FORCE. Learn those rules. Practice with those situations in mind--both you and your spouse. Remember that under stress you will not think clearly, and your behavior will revert to training.

Last thing: Forget the "cowboy ethic" (don't shoot a man in the back, etc.). If you need to use lethal force, then "kill first or get killed" and don't look back. "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

 

[Richard]

Thanks to those who have understood, or tried to understand my viewpoint and again, my pardons to any inappropriate representation I might have made.

The plot may have thinned a bit.

I just got off the phone with my guy at TVA and within the next two weeks, he’s going to try to hire someone (me) to trench out the ingress/egress points used by our visitors to get to their places of camping, drugs, dumping, other.

(again, recall that this is “NO motorized vehicles territory” so their being there with their vehicles is illegal)

He told me that when they do this program (block roads, Reinstall their signage (for no vehicles) they cruise and enforce it pretty strong. He went on to say that after a while of strong enforcement, the visitors tend to get the message and go elsewhere.

Soooooooooooooo if this in fact starts to develop, I may have no (felt) need for any firearm and as such, am going to wait a while longer before making any decision.

Frankly, I’m the kind that just as soon live my life, you live yours and we can both keep our doors unlocked.

With regard to moving, first off, there are 3 families involved with two of them being in their 80’s, so it’s not much of an option but to stay. In addition to the houses, they own 250 acres which makes up MOST of the area. Interestingly enough, out of the 3 families on the farm and 3 other families on the same road, I’m the ONLY one that has no firearms.

I’ll try to find/scan/post a map of our area. When I do, you will be able to see that the majority of the land between the water belongs to “us” (father in law) and as such, there is really just a ‘hang out spot” where the ner-do-well’s hang out.

(I hope no one here considers themself a ner-do-well)

There happens to be a gun shop in town, though I have no idea as to how good they are. (who decides that and on what criteria??)

I might poke my head in there next week and see what they have to say.

 

[BillG_in_TX]

Hey Richard,

How about "Yahoo"? (my father's favorite name for the "people" you are describing)
From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
<font color="blue">
1 capitalized : a member of a race of brutes in Swift's Gulliver's Travels who have the form and all the vices of humans
2 : a boorish, crass, or stupid person
</font>

 

[Golfgar4]

Richard,

That is quite a situation that you're in. I commend you for the way you're approaching the problems.

I'm also glad to hear that maybe things will improve in the future and you will not have to revert to arming the homestead. I can understand the suggestions to consider moving, but it would go against my grain to feel like I was forced out of MY home and the place where I wanted to raise my family because of these to be left unamed so that no one is offended people. I applaud you for sticking to your guns (pun INTENDED)! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

A suggestion for you, although it already sounds like maybe you're considering it. Since it appears that you have a little time before you might have to decide to move ahead with the purchase of the firearms, why not go ahead and get involved in the training now that you would need later anyway? It would save you some time if you find that you will want to get those guns. It could also provide valuable insight into the whole discussion of whether you do want to buy these guns.

Just a thought that occurred to me as I was reading your last post.

Good luck, and I certainly hope that the TVA's plans help solve the problem so that you and your family can comfortably enjoy your home and property. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you want to avoid the guns, but still feel the need to protect your family, I can teach you how to hit a low stinger with a 5 iron! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I can guarantee that getting hit by one of those will get someone's attention. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Like others have said....don't ask how I know that! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[RanchMan]

<font color="blue"> Soooooooooooooo if this in fact starts to develop, I may have no (felt) need for any firearm and as such, am going to wait a while longer before making any decision.
</font>

I hope the situation does improve, but I personally would never rely on the TVA or other government entity to protect the lives of me and my loved ones in such a scenario. Nope - I don't play dice with my family's safety. Even if this problem goes away, you're not "home free" and insulated permanently from criminal acts against you or your family. Maybe you'll be lucky - but maybe you won't. Just don't delude yourself that everybody follows a the same "live and let live" mentality that you do. It would be nice, but sorry, that's just not the way life is.

 

[Egon]

Things are looking up Richard.

Frankly, I feel a gun available is useless for protection unless it is always in your hand which it never will be.

Egon