Wood Flooring

   / Wood Flooring #1  

AggieDave77

New member
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Messages
6
Location
Santa Fe, TX
Tractor
Kubota B7510
First I want to say how much I love TBN! I’ve been a long-time lurker, so much so that my wife is getting jealous of the computer! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif But, I sure have learned a lot here.

My questions have to do with wood floors. Last year we purchased a small (~ 1700 sq ft) house on 5 acres south of Houston. It has a cement slab foundation. We have removed the carpets and vinyl in the kitchen and are considering putting wood flooring throughout the house, except for the bathrooms. I’ve been told that installing floating floors is better than gluing or nailing, but I’m concerned we won’t like the sound when people or pets walk around in the house. I’m also concerned about the durability of engineered wood floors but I think they look better than the laminates.

More background info: my kid is grown and we have a couple of small dogs but may adopt a greyhound or two now that we have a place they could run.

I’d like to hear your experiences/opinions regarding wood or laminate floors on cement slabs. Thanks!
 
   / Wood Flooring #2  
I have read that this is why floating floors were created for slab homes. I see them on TV and read about them in handy books/mags too. seem like they are pretty straight forward, higher buck ones can be re-surfaced if scratched, cheap ones are only a very thin vineer and can suck moisture up through the slab. either one I belive requires a vapor barrier under them and a padding like to keep the flor surface flat & even on them...

anyhow do a few searchs using google or yahoo and see what pops up then also ask for info at the local DIY centers near you.

MarkM /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
   / Wood Flooring #3  
There are foam substrates that can be used over the concrete to decrease the "hollow" sound of floating floors. You might also consider Natural Cork Floating Floor Panels. We installed 12"x36" cork floating floor panels at the "Farm" and just love them. They are quieter than hardwood floors, and easier on your feet. They don't show dirt at all, and are sealed with polyurethane so they can hold up well in kitchens and bathrooms.

When you look directly at a individual cork panel the "grain" may lookd too wild. When the panels are down on the floor and you look across the room, the pattern is much less distracting. We are very happy with our cork floors.
 
   / Wood Flooring #4  
if you have dogs just do tile. no to engineered wood. they are not sealed between the planks....pee gets inbetween. tile is not that pricey if you stay with standard stuff.
 
   / Wood Flooring #5  
The various floors are one of the most frequent conversations the CFO and I have. Like you, we're currently on a cement slab. And, like you, we don't like the hollow sound of the laminate floating floors. But, we sure like the ease of installing them!

Here's a synopsis of what we've decided, so far. Like everything, your mileage may vary.

Laminates -- easy to install, relatively inexpensive, good wear, great casual appearance (won't stand up to close examination), lousy clacking sound when walking on it; be sure to get a brand which licenses "quicklip" technology to snap them together. I have seen one style at Lowes where each board is separate rather than having 3 or 4 boards printed on a rectangle; this looks more realistic but probably doesn't sound better. Home Depot has 2 grades of backing -- one with 2 layers, and one with an added "silent step" layer. I've used the cheaper one and it's OK for a bedroom; I haven't tried the more expensive one, yet (almost 3 X as much $$). I have this in one room, now, and am planning to expand it through most of the house in the next few months. However, we are planning to sell this house within the next two years...

Engineered -- I don't know as much, but I think main difference is that the surface is a veneer of real wood vs. the plasitc photo finish of the laminates. If so, I'd have the same concern as for real wood. From what I've seen, the appearance is better than most laminates.

Real Wood, pre-finished -- I have this at my mountain cabin and my kids have it in their living room, but both are nailed over wood subfloors. Sounds great. I think it can be glued to concrete, and I think there are some models that can be installed as a floating floor. Best looking. My real problem with it (and possibly the engineered floors) is that here in South Florida we track in lots of the main ingredient in sand paper -- sand! Even if we took off our shoes all the time, our dogs would track in the sand and it would wear the floor quickly.

Real wood, unfinished -- I installed this in the lower level of my mountain cabin. Two layers of 5/8" plywood glued and screwed, a layer of 30 lb. felt roofing paper as anti-squeak, and 2-1/2" wide X 3/4" thick oak tongue & groove, blind nailed. Fantastic floor in looks, sound, or by any standard. Lots of work. But, not for me in S. Florida. To install it on cement slab, would probably have to be furred out and sub-floored with plywood, which would raise the floors in your house over 2" by the time you're done.

Vinyl wood grain, sheet or plank -- This is the one that intrigues me the most. About the same price as laminate, maybe a bit more. No problems with sound on any surface. Easy to install. Some of it has as good a warranty as laminate, which is better than wood. Some of it looks a lot better than laminate -- there is more wood grain texture in the vinyl, and some models have "grooves" between the simulated planks. The stuff that is installed as planks is great looking. I think the Congoleum is slightly more real looking than Armstrong. Walmart has been using a commercial version in some of their departments that is so real looking that it defies description, except that it probably costs more than Persian carpets.

We're putting the laminate in our present house because (a) around here it is most desired, so will raise the value the highest, and (b) it's easy for me to do. I have to do it myself because all the professional installers are too busy after the hurricanes to get to our work (we lost 4 rooms of carpet tothe storms). I think we will be using the Congoleum vinyl sheet wood grain on all of the floors of our new house in Okeechobee.

About the greyhounds -- we have two of them, a 9 year old female and a 2-1/2 year old male. They don't like to walk on anything hard or slippery. The older dog (Grandy) will avoid a laminate floor and tolerate a cermamic tile floor because she has to. She prefers carpet. The younger guy (Rocky) is bolder and not as skittish, but he, too, prefers carpet. I think they'll both appreciate the vinyl more than laminate. They are both diggers, which is why they bring in sand, and is one of the main reasons why we're never going to have carpet again -- we can't keep it clean with the dogs.

If we don't get the vinyl sheet for the new house, our close second choice will be the laminates that install as separate planks. The new house will have a wood subfloor rather than a slab, so I'm hoping the laminates sound better. I'll also be talking to the manufacturers to see if I can glue them or float them direct to the subfloor rather than floating them on the foam -- that will produce the best sound.

{Edit} Like kokopelli2 said, ceramic tile is a good solution for cement slab floors. Folks with wood subfloors are envious when it comes to installing ceramic tile. It's not as expensive as other materials unless you go nuts with the best tile; there is lots of extremely acceptable tile out there for less than $2/sq ft. It's pretty easy to learn how to install it, although it's easiest for fuss-bucket detail-oriented geeks like me. I have it in the kitchen, 3 baths, a laundry room and an entrance foyer. In my current house, I'd probably do the rest of the house in tile, excpet that we have all antique furniture and it just doesn't fit the style. Besides, like I mentioned above, the laminates are driving the "hot & trendy" market around here, right now, so I'm actually going to rip up the tile in my kitchen and flow the laminate through it. But, it's a great suggestion.
 
   / Wood Flooring #6  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Vinyl wood grain, sheet or plank -- This is the one that intrigues me the most. About the same price as laminate, maybe a bit more. No problems with sound on any surface. Easy to install. Some of it has as good a warranty as laminate, which is better than wood. Some of it looks a lot better than laminate -- there is more wood grain texture in the vinyl, and some models have "grooves" between the simulated planks. The stuff that is installed as planks is great looking. I think the Congoleum is slightly more real looking than Armstrong. Walmart has been using a commercial version in some of their departments that is so real looking that it defies description, except that it probably costs more than Persian carpets.)</font>

I'll second that - we have a fair amount of the vinyl wood grain in the house we are in now. Everyone, including both realtors, thought it was good hardwood flooring. After we lived on it for a few months, I finally found some small bumps in one room that convinced me it was not hardwood. It sure looks like it though.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( {Edit} Like kokopelli2 said, ceramic tile is a good solution for cement slab floors. Folks with wood subfloors are envious when it comes to installing ceramic tile. It's not as expensive as other materials unless you go nuts with the best tile; there is lots of extremely acceptable tile out there for less than $2/sq ft. It's pretty easy to learn how to install it, although it's easiest for fuss-bucket detail-oriented geeks like me. I have it in the kitchen, 3 baths, a laundry room and an entrance foyer.)</font>

My wife and I, previously complete novices to tile laying, laid 1200 sq. ft. of it in our last house. It is not rocket science, you just have to be careful with your measuring and laying out straight chalk lines. We went to a class at Home Depot and learned 95% of what we needed there. The hardest part for us was removing the previous old rubber-backed tile and cleaning the slab. I'd also recommend buying or renting a water-bath tile saw to do your cuts.
 
   / Wood Flooring #7  
I have had Hartco Pattern Plus oak flooring down in my house for 12 years now. Here is a website I picked at random that sells it: http://rvkfloors.com/Prefinished-Hardwood-Floor/Hartco/Pattern-plus-2-ply-oak-(random-length)/index.html
I have 5 kids and 3 dogs. We entertain a lot and we have nearly 1600 feel of this flooring down in all of our hallways (high traffic), as well as our bedroom, family room, dining room, and den.

Our floor has seen extensive abuse by all sorts of toys (toy cars, toy trucks, toy fire trucks, ride on scooter toys, over a decade of dog traffic, and tons of foot traffic. Besides our 7 person family, at nearly every holiday we are honored to host both sides of our family for Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, the 4th of July etc. At each gathering we seldom have less than a hundred or so people present. So, our floor has seen considerable use.

I'm extremely pleased to say that not only has it held up incredibly, but it actually "ages" gracefully. The small nicks from dropping 5 pound steel fire trucks do not leave an unsightly mark; rather a natural "ding" that does not require sanding or re-staining. In short, the floor has been incredible. The only issue we had was in the back of one closet, we had a gallon of bleach that developed a slow leak and the entire gallon of bleach leaked out in the closet floor over the course of about 6 months. If that were in the middle of the hallway, I would have had to replace that area. Being that it is in the back of a closet, I re-stained that area and without close examination it still looks fine.

I'm sure there are other hard wood floors that are great. I just wanted to comment on our floor since we have been so well pleased with it. That is especially since it has not had an easy life! It comes with a 25 year warranty, but I now fully expect it to last a lifetime. As you would expect, it is rather "spendy" though. But heck, most of the best quality floors are. Good luck!
 
   / Wood Flooring #8  
A portion of our home is on a cnocrete slab, and I am about to lay an unfinished maple t & g floor over it. When doing my research, I found a lot of ideas on the web while searching for gymnasium floors.

I first laid a plastic vapor barrior, then covered it with 1/2" thick dense styrofoam, and covered that with diagonally laid t & g 3/4" plywood (which I glued the seams together on just for good measure). This allows the floring to be nailed down to the plywood, but the entire floor to "float". I e-mailed this to the porta nailer people and they agreed that it would work, and suggested using 1 1/2" flooring nails.

I'll post a picture and some experiences when it is finished.

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / Wood Flooring #10  
I just finished installing approx 1200 sq ft of engineered hardwood in my basement. True hardwood in a basement is considered a no-no due to the heating cooling and humidity changes we experience over the season, but the engineered hardwood was approved as it floats like laminate over the foam underlay. We chose it over the laminate as is was approx the same cost as the better laminates ($4.60 sq ft CDN) and looks much better, plus is supposedly able to be refinished up to 3 times. The stuff I used from Home Depot (Universal Flooring) comes in a pre-glued tongue and groove plank that you tap together (okay hammer) . I can't tell you how well it stands up, as I just finished installation on the 23rd, but it looks great, and went together reasonably easily once the first row was straight.
It feels very much like our upstairs hardwood when walked on and is silent.

Hopefully we'll be pleased with it - it was a big investment.
 

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