woodmaxx flail mower?

[leonz]

Hi Leonz, just find this from their manual. Woodmaxx claim it is NPTF thread for couplings.
View attachment 565958

It's better to use British Standard Pipe Parallel (BSPP) and an O ring to seal it.

In China here, we have to use tape or glue on the tapered thread, otherwise it will leak oil very easily. We don't trust the accuracy of the tapered thread surface here. I don't think NPTF is suggested to be used on hydraulic system. Can't believe they use NPTF these years. It seems US users are very kind to solve problem by themselves.

Does US machines often use teflon and pipe dope on tapered thread? Or is there already pipe dope on the tapered thread?

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Hello Mr. Yuan,


I am about ready to scream!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I looked at the picture you uploaded from woodmax and it certainly looks to me that who ever put those hoses together crimped the fitting over the hose protector sleeve. THAT is a definite NO NO as the hose fitting barb cannot completely crimp to the inner fitting barbs to provide an adequate and safe to use hose end.

The hose and fitting makers adhere to the JIC standards and they make all thier NPT fittings and hose ends using a schedule 80 steel blank from what I remember.


They do not use teflon tape they use a proper paste sealant ment for hydraulic system use.


If you can you should invest in some RIGID pipe dies and pipe taps to chase the threads on your hydraulic fittings and invest in a case of the Loctite 577 thread sealant for the the pipe thread hose fittings that you have to use.

The one excellent thing about buying a set of RIGID brand N.P.T. taps and dies is that you can chase the die over every male hydraulic fitting and run the tap through every female fitting to make sure they are properly threaded and the minute you start running the tap through the female fitting or running the die over any make hose end you will know immediately if you want to use that hose fitting or hydraulic fitting you intend to install in a cylinder as there will be no wobble when you pass over it with the female die or when you insert the male tap

Any bad hydraulic fitting that is installed in one of your mowers is one fitting that could break and leak and potentially injure or kill someone.

If you can locate a RIGID dealer in Tapei and order pipe taps and dies and a rigid pipe vise I would do it.


I hope all is well on your side of the Pacific pond. I agree with you that British Standard Pipe is much easier to use and much more adjustable(forgiving)to prevent hose and fitting failures. Ine has to make sure that they have the Blue Dot BSP orings in their tool box to replace an o-ring that has been under compression for a long time as they will become deformed over time due to the heat generated by the hydraulic system.

Its never, NEVER, NEVER a good idea to use teflon tape with hydraulic systems as the tape particles can cause damage to control valves and prevent adequate control of a hydraulic function allowing them to creep.

You never ever ever use teflon tape on JIC 37 degree fittings ever as they are designed and machined to seal completely with the mating male or female fitting mounted on a valve body or a hose connection.


I have no idea who they purchase their hydraulic fittings and hydraulic hose from but if they are using poor or substandard thread dies to thread the crimp on fittings at the manufacturer they are asking for trouble and lawsuits at woodmax if someone is injured from a hydraulic leak which results in penetrating wound that will eventually kill someone if they do not reach a hospital in time to have the wound opened up and the oil washed away before it enters the bloodstream.

 

[PatMcD]

I'm looking pretty hard at the FM-96H to replace my worn out Mott 88. I'll be mowing my rocky new England fields with it; plenty of small rocks, ledge poking out, etc. Which of the two blade choices would be better for me "zinging" over ledge?

 

[leonz]

Hello and good morning PatMcD,

How worn out is your Mott 88?

Save your money and buy a used John Deere 25A or John Deere 290 flail mowers for sale and you will be much happier.

The 25A and 290 will allow you to use either the scoop knife or the side slicer knife. The scoop knife is less costly than the side slicer pairs especially when you purchase them in quantity.

 

[Fallon]

I'm looking pretty hard at the FM-96H to replace my worn out Mott 88. I'll be mowing my rocky new England fields with it; plenty of small rocks, ledge poking out, etc. Which of the two blade choices would be better for me "zinging" over ledge?

The Y side slicers are lighter & cheaper. They will bounce easier, good for rocks & what now, but not as much for brush.

I hit a rock the other week with the several lbs hammers on my new Peruzzo flail & it did a number on the hammer I could see. Some chips on it & a really rounded edge now. It still works & I'm being lazy on pulling it to resharpen.

I mangled some side slicers on my old 917 with rocks & a well head, but more often than not the knives were ok. I never sharpened them once & they still gave a pretty darn good cut quality. The thinner knife is still sharp enough even when completely worn & rounded in the cutting edge. I'm sure sharper would cut better, but just wasnt worth the effort for me.

I'd go wyh the Y side slicers to survive rocks better, especially if you dont have any brush over finger size to mow.

 

[slckeys]

Leonz...
I see you recommend this wet grinder and angle setter often, could you link to them? I saw 2 different options on grinders... Thank you.

 

[leonz]

Leonz...
I see you recommend this wet grinder and angle setter often, could you link to them? I saw 2 different options on grinders... Thank you.

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Micro-Mark - The Small Tools Specialists Item #86566 now $77.99+ tax +shipping
(wet well grinder)


Woodworking Plans & Tools | Fine Woodworking Project & Supplies at Woodcraft Item # tor-WM-200 now $29.00+tax +shipping
(tormek anglemaster)

 

[slckeys]

Thank you so much.

 

[leonz]

You are most welcome.

 

[PatMcD]

Hello and good morning PatMcD,

How worn out is your Mott 88?

Save your money and buy a used John Deere 25A or John Deere 290 flail mowers for sale and you will be much happier.

The 25A and 290 will allow you to use either the scoop knife or the side slicer knife. The scoop knife is less costly than the side slicer pairs especially when you purchase them in quantity.

It works as-is, but she has seen a lot of use. The more I think about it, I might put the money into rebuilding her. I'm into it pretty cheap, right now.

 

[otus_branch]

Woodmaxx FM 78H update / first impressions:

Well, I finally got my Woodmaxx the rest of the way assembled and mounted onto my Kubota.

Regarding Jack Yuan's earlier question, the cylinder was empty of hydraulic fluid as far as I can tell. Hooking it up to my rear remote (partially - more on that in a moment) hardly moved the fluid level on my tractor though, so no problem. Also, although the Woodmaxx manual claimed that the bearings would come pre-greased, the zerks sure looked clean and dry, so I gave each one a very few pumps just to be sure some grease was in there. I felt no back pressure or any other evidence that they were indeed pre-greased.

Woodmaxx shipped me new hoses at no charge last week, and the 1/2x14 fittings threaded on these new ones successfully. I took ericm979's recommendation and purchased a bottle of Loctite 545 hydraulic/air threadlocker instead of tape, and used a bit of that. Unfortunately, after all that, one of the female ends of my third rear remote seemed frozen / unable to accept the fitting. I chose to use the top and tilt cylinders in the other two remotes, so for this initial mowing, I zip-tied the Woodmaxx hoses to the hitch and just mowed in the position it arrived in. The T&T setup makes it easy to eliminate scalping or other similar problems.

I mowed ~7' high weeds for about two hours: mostly ironweed, goldenrod, and boneset, along with grasses, etc. The Kubota L-39 (30 hp at the PTO) needed every bit of engine power when geared all the way down to 1st or 2nd gear in order to handle these tall weeds. I'm glad that I didn't source a 7' mower (or larger): 78" is plenty for my machine! I think that when people say ~4 hp (or even less) per foot of width for a flail is adequate, they are talking about mowing lawns. I expect more out of my flail, and therefore am glad that Woodmaxx specs their flails as they do.

The volume of debris coming off weeds this height is pretty astounding, and it's important to keep an eye on the temp gauge, and clean the screen in front of the radiator every hour or sooner.

On the FM 78H, the bearings spun smoothly, the mower cut well, and I was happy with the results. In the future, I'll try to cut weeds and grasses at 3' high or so, and anticipate being able to mow in 4th gear or higher. All bolts seemed tight still at first glance afterward.

A few problems developed with the Kubota recently (unrelated to the Woodmaxx), so it's in the shop at the moment. Hopefully, they'll get that third rear remote working again, along with other matters so that I can do some more mowing soon.

So far, so good. Will add more later.

 

[NCG]

Good day everyone,

I'm new here. I'm considering an FM-88H from WoodMaxx. I have a 5205 Deere with 50 HP at the pto. Will be mowing cover crops, prairie, and some heavier brush. I see most flail manufacturers say they can cut up to 2" brush. Not that I have much that is more than 1", but why is this seemingly heavy duty flail rated at only 1". Also, from experience is 50 HP enough for this machine in tall grass and forbs?

Also have looked briefly at LandPride. It's been posted here that they were importing Maschio machines and re branding. When did this stop? Are their new machines as good? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks for any input,
NCG

 

[atomchaser]

The ratings are somewhat subjective, I would suspect. With duckfoot blades, my FM-78H has done fine on brush and saplings. My tractor is about 38 hp at the PTO, so I think you are fine with what you have.

 

[leonz]

Good day everyone,

I'm new here. I'm considering an FM-88H from WoodMaxx. I have a 5205 Deere with 50 HP at the pto. Will be mowing cover crops, prairie, and some heavier brush. I see most flail manufacturers say they can cut up to 2" brush. Not that I have much that is more than 1", but why is this seemingly heavy duty flail rated at only 1". Also, from experience is 50 HP enough for this machine in tall grass and forbs?

Also have looked briefly at LandPride. It's been posted here that they were importing Maschio machines and re branding. When did this stop? Are their new machines as good? Any input is appreciated.

Thanks for any input,
NCG

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Welcome to the forum,

since your new here and new to flail mowers: I am going to suggest to you to purchase a used JD25A, JD290 or JD390 for your current mule. You have plenty of power for both the JD290(25A) and the JD390 and you will never tax the 390. Ask your JD dealer if he knows of any 25A, 290 or 390 flail mowers that are for sale in the JD network.
The basic number one reason is simply one of being able to purchase spare parts locally and obtain answers about flail mower questions and a nationwide JD dealer network where you can obtain parts overnight if needed.

I believe the importation of the Maschio orchard and and vineyard flail shredders by Land Pride stopped when Kubota purchased Land Pride.
The Landpride flail mowers are now made by kubota and I am not sure if they are made by the folks at the Land Pride factory in Kansas or not.

My father used his Ford Jubilee to knock down 12-15 foot golden rod and other brush with his 7 foot cut JD25A with no trouble other than having to hop off and clean the chaff screen on the Ford Jubilee, It had an oil bath pre cleaner for combustion air and it was easy to just dump the cyclone dust cup of fine dust as he used it.

Like I said, your mule will have no issues with the 25A, 290 or 390 John Deere flail mowers ans you can purchase parts and V belts from your JD dealer.

The used ones come up for sale or bid auction on auctiontime, iron planet and tractor house and they are easy to maintain and repair as they have externally mounted open flange bearings bolted to the side weldments of these flail mowers .

Believe me when I say its easier when you have local dealer that stocks part and can provide support for an implement like this.

There are many TBN members that have the 25A, 290 and 390 in their stable of implements.

 

[AGTtactical]

I gave up waiting for mine that I had on order (kept being on backorder) as I had jobs stacking up, so I bit the bullet and spent a little over 5K for a Land Pride FM2172 Flail Mower, it's a nice Italian Made Flail, already did 30 acres of nasty Northern Arizona Prairie weeds/rocks, took it like a champ.

This was on your L4060? Great to hear it worked well for you, as I've been trying to decide between a Landpride FM2172 or a Woodmax FM78H. I don't have a loader on my L6060...I wonder if I'll need weights in front to mount that 1040 pound FM2172?

 

[AGTtactical]

Hello blb078, After all this I would just by a JD290/390 or a Vrisimo flail mower and never worry about anything again.

"After all this"? Waiting for a delivery doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Plan ahead...high demand equals wait times. I've waited on orders from JD too. "I would just by a JD290/390 or a Vrisimo flail mower and never worry about anything again." Why? Previously you recommended several times to buy a Land Pride or Mathews flail mower, not JD or Vrisimo. You also recommended buying flail mowers with continuous welds...Vrismo doesn't have those. Here's a pic. Vrisimo-Flail Mowers and Shredders Also, their C172 flail weighs less (772 to 804), spins slower (1850 to 2160) and has a lower rated gearbox (50 hp to 55) than the Woodmax. Another item of note: And Woodmax's warranty is twice that of John Deere and Landpride (2 years vs. 1 year). For the USA vs. import issue, John Deere's flails are made in France from what I see on their website.

That being said, I'm still trying to decide between a Wood Max FM78 or a Land Pride FM2572... I see the logic of the guys buying the Woodmax...its hard to justify the cost of Land Pride or JD when one could buy two Woodmax flails for the price of a JD or LP. As we used to say in the Marine Corps when it comes to equipment...quantity has its own quality. Still researching...put I"m on the list with Woodmax. No deposit required...they just go down the list of people waiting and email or call you when they more in. BTW, there's a new Operator's Manual for the 2019 model years and up. Anyone know what changed?

 

[AGTtactical]

Well; if your referring to the partial welds on the exterior center braces on those specific models they do not have to have full welds.

It might be better to just admit that maybe you were not correct. I agree that Vrisimo clearly makes a great flail...my point is simply if you are going to lecture guys about what they purchase, you may want to be sure of your info. You said buy a flail with "full length welds"...then recommended Vrisimo which doesn't have them, as anyone can see:

View attachment 601725 View attachment 601724 View attachment 601726 View attachment 601728.

There is an old saying that "you only buy a good tool once". My Mathews Lawn Genie is almost 40 years old now.

Just curious leonz...what experience do you have with modern flails? You share a lot of good info on flails, but it appears from your own posts that the only flail you've ever owned is a Lawn Genie, which you said you got from your dad. Have you ever bought any flail mower, and if so, which one? How do you operate it, as your sole tractor appears to a JD LA115 riding mower?

Quantity really does not apply in this instance nor did it apply the last time a live mortar shell exploded in a launch tube and killed the loader and 2 other team members during live fire war games almost a decade ago during army reservist live fire exercises form what I remember of the incident.

Not sure what this has to do with anything, except that it sounds a little odd. But since you brought it up, no one in the military calls these "war games"...they are called live fire exercises. Anyhow, my statement "quantity has its own quality" is true in pretty much everything so not sure why you don't get it. My point was that I can understand other guys' interest in a Woodmax because they could own two of them for the price of one Land Pride, or 4 of them for the price of one $12,000 Vrisimo. I like quality too...but I can also understand the logic of guys who see value in a Woodmax. And I say that knowing I probably will buy a Landpride FM2572.

If you want a wood max buy one. I would buy a Del Morino flail mower from everything attachments...

Thank you for the permission. EA doesn't sell Del Morino. They sell another brand called Phoenix that is made in Italy. Do they get the great leonz stamp of approval, or are they excluded too, and why? Thanks for your wisdom in advance!

 

[leonz]

Your attachments will not come up for what ever reason.

The physics involved with the design of a belt driven flail mower are the same as a larger flail mower of any size or use whether it is a folding towed flail mower, hydraulic drive flail mower, rear mounted PTO powered boom mounted flail mower, PTO powered vineyard and orchard crop shredder or the original Mott Flail mowers that revolutionized mowing ditches and along highways just as the first mott push flail mower did with its single handle that was used to push the smaller engine driven flail mower Mott flail mower that was also able to mow down thick lawns and brush by simply raising and lowering the mower with the handle. The principle in the use, operation and flail mower rotor speed, flail mower knife tip speed are the same no matter what size the flail mower or whether it is a small towed motorized flail mower that uses a pick up basket to collect the clippings and leaves or a Vineyard and orchard crop shredder that has cast flail hammer knives



The side plate weldments on the Vrisimo flail mowers are full welds as I said. The stiffener braces have on the mightymax model in the first picture only have short welds.

I purchased my first flail mower from the dealer that my father traded his smaller flail mower in to purchase a larger flail mower with a pick up basket capacity of one cubic yard.

I traded that flail mower and a Wheelhorse Commando 8 lawn tractor in for a Wheelhorse 244 Hydro with a belly mower and snow plow; I should have bought the snow blower for it.

I inherited my fathers 48 inch lawn Genie pick up mower when my brother did not want to use it.

I have used a JD 3020 gas tricycle row crop tractor with JD25A mower as a rental machine.

My father owned a Ford Jubilee gas tractor with a 1982-3 JD25A flail mower that we used to knock down old pasture that had 12-15 foot golden rod and heavy brush to reclaim it.

We used it to mow 2 acre sections of the 12 acre pasture to a 2 inch height every week for many years.

My fathers JD25A that was made in Moline Illinois had full welds on the side weldments and it included the tubular steel that was welded with full weldments in front of the flail mower shroud and attached to the side weldments.

The Phoenix line of flail mowers and other implements are made by SICMA from what I remember. Both Sicma and many builders of farm machinery in Europe have been making farm machinery like flail mowers and flail crop shredders for a long time just like Del Morino, Ferrari, Caroni, Wessex, INO, Peruzzo and others and they must be built to the higher European safety standards with the safety shield piano hinge guards in the front of these flail mowers.

Why do you assume I DO NOT GET IT? I have seen my share of junk of all types offered for sale and how use, abuse and lack of care have killed or injured bystanders or motorists that were well out of range of a mower crew using rotary cutters that expelled a blade and killed or injured someone with massive consequences to the users of these implements and a lifetime of misery for the injured parties.

About The term live fire exercises:

My father and his commanders always referred to them as "war games" when he served in the United Sates Army from 1945-53 as that was the term that was always used
and stuck with me.

As I stated The European made flail mowers and flail crop shredders simply have to conform to the higher safety standards created by the European Union for farm machinery of any size and especially for flail mowers and flail vineyard brush mowers and flail crop shredders.


In accounting any purchase involves what is referred to as the opportunity cost which means;

"what one willing to give up for the purchase of a specific item or service". any investment or purchase involves the problems of "risk or reward".

Spend your money wisely, ask questions, ask more questions, look at the welds, ask what the implement weight is and then go from there.

There are a lot of good used flail mowers on the market from time to time and many good new flail mowers come out inventory reduction sales from a dealer or from dispersal sales or auctions that have very low hours that will outlive a current tractor and will also be used on its replacement.

 

[Code54]

There are a lot of good used flail mowers on the market from time to time and many good new flail mowers come out inventory reduction sales from a dealer or from dispersal sales or auctions that have very low hours that will outlive a current tractor and will also be used on its replacement.

Definitely keep your eyes open for a used flail mower. Last year I picked up a nice used Alamo 6' Flail for $400 delivered to the house. $200 buck later I had new bearing and knives and am very pleased with mower. Wanted a new one but knew I would not use one that much and I sort of prefer commercial eqpt. so I kept watch the local ads, Ebay, criagslist, etc and finally one came up. If your not in a big hurry keep your eyes open and you may get lucky. Good luck finding a unit you like for the right price!

 

[AGTtactical]

Definitely keep your eyes open for a used flail mower. Last year I picked up a nice used Alamo 6' Flail for $400 delivered to the house. $200 buck later I had new bearing and knives and am very pleased with mower. Wanted a new one but knew I would not use one that much and I sort of prefer commercial eqpt. so I kept watch the local ads, Ebay, criagslist, etc and finally one came up. If your not in a big hurry keep your eyes open and you may get lucky. Good luck finding a unit you like for the right price!

Thanks Code54...what a bargain!