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X-cord for welder
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workinonit
Elite Member
The circuit breaker is there for 2 reasons. To protect the equipment and the conductors from overcurrent/overload situations. We have had this debate before and I understand that you CAN run a welder on a much smaller conductor but to recommend to others, especially novices, the downsizing of conductors is just irresponsible. Ratings are on equipment for reasons and they should be wired accordingly. A 10 gauge wire on a 50 amp breaker is unsafe, plain and simple. Conductor size and breaker size should be matched. Certainly on a fault the breaker will trip on pretty much any size wire. That's not the case in an over current condition. That's a recipe for a blowout or a fire. I've seen those first hand and I can tell you faults and over current conditions are not very pretty.
workinonit
Elite Member
Nice cord. Mine is very similar.
Sberry
Platinum Member
I agree about a little and that is the point i am making. There is a big hang up on the wire size at the expense of other relevent and often dangerous practices.
Knowing one thing is different than knowing it well.
Workingonit seems like a fine fellow but this is what i am getting at. The opinion that what this code allows, the fundamental priniciple almost all circuit design is based on is not faulty.
My explanation may not be the best so it might be worth it yo find someone a guy can relate to better to explain it.
But the amateur tells us the proffesionals, all the codes are wrong and dangerous cause he has 5 minutes of study on one line.
Knowing one thing is different than knowing it well.
Workingonit seems like a fine fellow but this is what i am getting at. The opinion that what this code allows, the fundamental priniciple almost all circuit design is based on is not faulty.
My explanation may not be the best so it might be worth it yo find someone a guy can relate to better to explain it.
But the amateur tells us the proffesionals, all the codes are wrong and dangerous cause he has 5 minutes of study on one line.
Sberry
Platinum Member
I got to wonder if this isnt right why they leave it in the code for over 75 years. As i mention,, this focus often actually creates a problem vs preventing it.
Most of the worlds equipment is plugged in to breakers larger than the machine requires, the alarm clock etc. Same for the welder. The AC buzzer sold by the millions has a 12 cord plugs in to a 50 circuit. Changing the circuit wire from 10 to 6 doesnt help much.
As i recall there was a guy qire his welders with 4 to 50 outlets and put 80A breaker on it because,,,, the breaker only protects the wire. This is super faulty and extremely dangerous and a poster case for self education. The learning stopped after hearing that one line.
I know some guys study under that guy,,, someone told me,,, i was always told but he aint a very good teacher.
The instruction manual for decades to a 225 from Lincoln with the code section must have been written by idiots because there is a guy who has "always ben told" knows way more about it than they do.
Most of the worlds equipment is plugged in to breakers larger than the machine requires, the alarm clock etc. Same for the welder. The AC buzzer sold by the millions has a 12 cord plugs in to a 50 circuit. Changing the circuit wire from 10 to 6 doesnt help much.
As i recall there was a guy qire his welders with 4 to 50 outlets and put 80A breaker on it because,,,, the breaker only protects the wire. This is super faulty and extremely dangerous and a poster case for self education. The learning stopped after hearing that one line.
I know some guys study under that guy,,, someone told me,,, i was always told but he aint a very good teacher.
The instruction manual for decades to a 225 from Lincoln with the code section must have been written by idiots because there is a guy who has "always ben told" knows way more about it than they do.
Sberry
Platinum Member
The fact that we can plug a 16 cord in to a 20 outlet kind of explains this. Lots of hard wired equipment wired under this principle as well as the internals of the equipment.
About the only place that is wired full are general outlets with the exception of welders which there is an allowance for.
Millions of AC buzzers wired with 10 cable to 50 fuses for decades by masters under code. Seems a guy might wonder,,,, why, , how can this be safe? Why would they allow this?
About the only place that is wired full are general outlets with the exception of welders which there is an allowance for.
Millions of AC buzzers wired with 10 cable to 50 fuses for decades by masters under code. Seems a guy might wonder,,,, why, , how can this be safe? Why would they allow this?
Sberry
Platinum Member
There are guys know more about this than most people do and do not need to learn any more , the someone told me school of study obviously supercedes years of study but there are others that should know a couple fundamental principles this system is based on.
There is nothing wrong with upsizing a wire a couple 3 bigger than it needs but it doesnt need to be and doesnt add as much to safety ss it might appear at first glance.
Rhere are some common pieces represent this, they are similar to much internal equipment design where the breaker does not provide thermal. Yes it is part of it and on occasion does become active but equipment does not depend on it for thermal overload ,, that comes from applied load or design.
A little like the common power strip. The added protection is not for fault but thermal overload like other thermal resets found elsewhere. The fault protection is still provided by the breaker. Thermal is only one feature a breaker has and really (for this type of discussion) applies to circuits with multiple outlets can be overloaded by the user.
There is nothing wrong with upsizing a wire a couple 3 bigger than it needs but it doesnt need to be and doesnt add as much to safety ss it might appear at first glance.
Rhere are some common pieces represent this, they are similar to much internal equipment design where the breaker does not provide thermal. Yes it is part of it and on occasion does become active but equipment does not depend on it for thermal overload ,, that comes from applied load or design.
A little like the common power strip. The added protection is not for fault but thermal overload like other thermal resets found elsewhere. The fault protection is still provided by the breaker. Thermal is only one feature a breaker has and really (for this type of discussion) applies to circuits with multiple outlets can be overloaded by the user.
Sberry
Platinum Member
Good place to study this is sizing for multiple motors.
jaxs
Elite Member
I see where you are coming from. Another example of common sense and experience proving engineers and popular belief to be wrong is fasteners. Most machines (even electrical devices) have more bolts and screws than neccessary holding them togeather. A mechanic that learned by experience rather than formal training often doesn't waste time replacing more fasteners than required to hold things togeather. The result is higher production,added income and faster disassembly in the future. So yea,engineers and desighners don't always know more than the man on the street.
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