X570 Cut Quality Issue

   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #1  

66cuda

New member
Joined
Sep 17, 2017
Messages
16
Location
Marne Michigan
Tractor
John Deere
I've been having some issues with the cut quality on my X570 with 48" Deck. I have the mulching kit on and it seems like I'm always getting strips of uncut grass. to me it looks like its coming form the center of the deck but i'm not positive.

I checked to make sure the deck is level and the tire pressure is correct and everything looks good. I've tried overlapping cuts, changing the height of the anti-scalp wheels, changing the cutting height and so far nothing seems to make a difference. I talked to the dealer I got the unit from and he's saying I need to keep experimenting.

Does anyone have any idea's to help me fix the issue?

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   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #2  
I always use high lift blades but primarily because I'm bagging. I do, however, seems to get a nicer cut with the high lift blades.

I've also heard that the leaf blow out kits help with quality of the cut.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #3  
I would purchase a John Deere mower deck height tool. Cost eight to ten dollars. Genuine John Deere AM13:eek:7 Mower Deck Leveling Gauge *T1 | eBay.

Check the air in the tires to insure uniform pressure in all tires. Then place the mower on a flat concrete surface and measure the front and rear blade tip heights for all blades. On the two outside blades also measure the side blade height. If the same height is received on all blades, check the mower deck, blade drive belt to see if it slipping. Belt slippage could be the problem if you are mowing high grass with the mulching adapter in place. The center blade would be slowed and not running the same blade tip speed as the two outside blades leaving a streak look. You can check this by mowing one area at your usually speed then mow another area at a reduced speed to see if the uncut appearance is reduced or eliminated.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #4  
Consider adjusting the deck pitch. It may be exaggerated. Just mark down where you started.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #5  
Make sure you are not cutting at low rpm's. I can create very similar problems with my 2305 if I cut at low rpm's. If the blades don't spin fast enough they cannot lift all the grass into the blades. At least on mine with the mulching kit, at really low rpm's to mid rpm's I can get some pretty interesting (easily repeatable) cutting issues (missed strips or weeds just topped and pushed over...varies by rpm). Once I get the blades up into the high rpm range it provides a fantastic cut. I did switch mine over to better quality high lift mulching blades which provides an even better cut and it almost vaporizes the grass clippings. If running it at full throttle (like the manual says) doesn't fix the issue, you will want to make sure your blades are aligned properly.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #6  
If running it at full throttle (like the manual says) doesn't fix the issue, you will want to make sure your blades are aligned properly.

Yep, running at full throttle, i.e. 3600 RPM. Almost guaranteed to wear out the engine in short order. Good for business.

Shortly after the warranty expires, so will the engine.

There is no reason to operate a mower at full throttle, well unless you are cutting hay. With the HP and torque of these new engines, cutting 3" high grass should be a walk in the park. If blade speed is an issue, they should just change the engine to blade ratio.

Let me ask a question, has anyone had an issue with power when cutting grass? I doubt it. You got to remember, the tractor manufactures make money selling new tractors. If you can make a tractor last 20 years, what's in it for the manufacture?

Richard
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #7  
I had another thought. Around by me, we have crane fly. The grass you can just lift up as it tends to grow along the ground rather than straight up.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #8  
Yep, running at full throttle, i.e. 3600 RPM. Almost guaranteed to wear out the engine in short order. Good for business.

Shortly after the warranty expires, so will the engine.

There is no reason to operate a mower at full throttle, well unless you are cutting hay. With the HP and torque of these new engines, cutting 3" high grass should be a walk in the park. If blade speed is an issue, they should just change the engine to blade ratio.

Let me ask a question, has anyone had an issue with power when cutting grass? I doubt it. You got to remember, the tractor manufactures make money selling new tractors. If you can make a tractor last 20 years, what's in it for the manufacture?

Richard


Full throttle would actually be 3350 +/- 100 rpm on the JD X500 series. They limit it but don't forget he is asking on how to fix the cut with his FACTORY setup. I had problems with my cut quality with the FACTORY setup until I ran it at almost full throttle because my mid PTO doesn't spin fast enough with the factory blades to create the lift required to pull all the grass and weeds into the blades. It isn't about power it is about lift with the crappy factory mulching blades. To reduce rpm required on my machine I scrapped the factory blades and switched to a better mulching blade that had a higher lift than the factory blades so I could run at lower rpm without missing strips and only topping weeds. I didn't like running my rpm's up near the 3000 range to get a good cut so now my optimal cutting rpm with the new blades is right around 2700 rpm but this is on my JD2305 and not a lawn tractor.

Now, if we want to turn this into an rpm engine wear discussion so the OP can understand where you are coming from in case the OP doesn't already know, we certainly can. While
I absolutely agree with Richard001 that running at 3600 rpm all the time is not a good idea for your engine that is not actually what I'm telling you to do. Let's talk about the current x500 series engine and then some engine rpm's. The X500 series engine is rated for a high idle of 3600 rpm but JD limits the rpm down to around 3350. It varies because some people have reported much lower. I've seen as low as 3180 rpm and as high as 3420 rpm reported in forums from the factory but the few results I've seen actually posted were mostly below 3350 rpm mark. This is obviously lower than the 3600 rpm high idle rating of the engine (http://www.kawasakienginesusa.com/sites/default/files/manuals/99920-2290-01_fs651v-691v-730v_en_es_1.pdf). In other words, the X500 engine was designed to operate on the high end at 3600 rpm so the "red line" is above those rpm. You aren't "redlining" the engine when when you push it up to full throttle you are actually a good ways away from the "red line" because JD sets the high idle several hundred rpm below the max high idle rpm (not to be confused with red line which is higher than 3600 rpm). The engine is actually designed to be run at speeds up to 3600 rpm on a regular basis but you are limited to rpm's below that number. Will constantly running your engine in the 3350 rpm range shorten its life? It might but by how much or how little totally depends on how well you keep up with maintenance, make sure the oil is good, and limit the cold starts. Yes, the more actual revolutions the engine turns the more wear and tear put on it but how many revolutions does it take to cause enough wear for something to break? Well, that depends on how well the engine is built (materials used, tolerances, clearances, fit of parts,....) so who knows. There are also other things that damage engines but that discussion is better left for the experts.

Now if running things at high rpm's guarantee an early engine death then motorcycle engines and small engines would be in big trouble. Those engines run at much higher rpm than car, tractor, and mower engines. Depending on the engine type the high ilde can range from 7000 rpm up to near 15,000 rpm (Yamaha R6 14,500 rpm). I know, I know, someone is going to chime in with how many of those things last 20 years. Well, I have several items that I'm still using that were bought in the 80's without the engine being rebuilt and so does my dad. Lots of modern engines are designed to run at high rpm's and can still last a long time. Most engine damage actually occurs on cold starts and running up to high rpm's before the oil has heated up. In a well built modern engine, once the oil gets hot and everything gets lubricated, the amount of engine wear drops significantly. Now of course in older tractors/mowers they were typically set to run right up to the max rated rpm for the engine in them so you certainly wanted to avoid max throttle whenever possible. Is it better to run an engine in the sweet spot somewhere in the middle of the rpm range? Of course, but you cannot always do that. Take mine for example, to get 540 rpm on the rear pto and 2100 rpm on the mid pto I have to run the engine up to 2900 rpm. I'd love to be able to get 540 rpm on the rear pto at a much lower rpm like most of the big boy tractors but I can't. Am I worried about running my engine at 2900 rpm all the time instead of 2300 rpm? Nope, not at all because I maintain my equipment can change the fluids more often than recommended. Do I run my tractor in the 3000 rpm range? Absolutely, when I'm traveling over to my parents place I run her WOT which is 3170 rpm on a 3600 rpm rated engine. With all this said, I certainly wouldn't recommend running full throttle all the time on older equipment unless the high idle has been reduced well below engine max idle. The best practice is always to dip in and dip out as needed but back to the point. With FACTORY blades and setup, try full or near full throttle and see if that helps. If you don't like running it at full throttle then you can switch out blades.

I've already typed out too much so I'm not going to be long winded about advantages of making tractors last 20 years. Did you ever stop to wonder why they raise the prices on parts for old tractors at a steady rate or why they discontinue parts for old tractors? They do make the tractors to last so that is why they make it expensive or hard to maintain the old ones. That is how they try to price you into a new model of the same brand. I've watched the prices almost double for some of the parts on my tractor and it is only 9 years old. If my rear PTO fails I already know the tractor will get scrapped and I'll buy a new one and John Deere knows it too. :laughing:
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Thanks everyone for all the replies. I apologize for not getting back sooner. I was traveling last week for work.

I have been running the throttle at full speed to ensure that the tip speed is up. I will plan on getting the gauge and checking the blade heights. I'm also going to look into the blowout kit to see if that helps.

I see a lot of people are running different blades than what comes in the John Deere Kit. Is there a recommendation for a better blade to be using?

I mowed yesterday and this time set the deck up a little higher. I was wondering if I was mowing too low and causing the deck to get bogged down. I didn't see much of a change.

I've attached pictures of my first pass as well as my second pass. The second pass is in the opposite direction of the first. I'm also battling the poplar tree fuzz right now too so that is making a huge mess.

IMG_1864.JPGIMG_1863.JPGIMG_1866.JPG
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #10  
Sometimes it is about finding the sweet spot. More so when asking the deck to do something besides just blow the grass out the side. In past 48" decks, I've seen people that did well with the Deere mulching kit and those who didn't. Blow out kits have purpose, but you wouldn't use one with the mulch kit. Hybrid blades such as Gators are reasonably successful with the 48 and others and will sometimes clean up a quality of cut. Whether or not they would work with the existing mulching kit is question. They are meant to be used stand alone plus may not have clearance with the mulching baffle. Best to start with the basics: clean, sharp, level and pitch.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #11  
Thanks everyone for all the replies. I apologize for not getting back sooner. I was traveling last week for work.

I have been running the throttle at full speed to ensure that the tip speed is up. I will plan on getting the gauge and checking the blade heights. I'm also going to look into the blowout kit to see if that helps.

I see a lot of people are running different blades than what comes in the John Deere Kit. Is there a recommendation for a better blade to be using?

I mowed yesterday and this time set the deck up a little higher. I was wondering if I was mowing too low and causing the deck to get bogged down. I didn't see much of a change.

I've attached pictures of my first pass as well as my second pass. The second pass is in the opposite direction of the first. I'm also battling the poplar tree fuzz right now too so that is making a huge mess.

View attachment 557786View attachment 557785View attachment 557787

I had a similar problem with my x495 with a 62c deck. I added a ganged reel mower as I am cutting the yard. Gives a great finish cut to the grass. Looks like a golf course fairway after the first pass.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #12  
There must be thousands of these decks out there, if all of them were cutting grass like yours and mine you d think there would be more message traffic about it. That said, I ve never been able to totally eliminate what you re experiencing. Have minimized it by adding the blow out kit, dialing in the blades with gauge blocks, and cutting as low as you think the grass will take it. I prefer to cut at 2.5, but cut is better at 2.0.

I ve replaced the deck with a new one but that didn t improve things very much. So it must have something to do with the way the deck is suspended, the rpm an individual engine is turning, or something else? I haven t been able to figure it out.

BTW, what happens with yours if you mow while going in reverse? Better, worse, or no change?
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #13  
From what I see, I'd check and make sure that the blade tips pass each other at the same height. All too easy to get a bent blade and a lower tip of one blade will make strips that are similar to the strips (stripes) shown in the pics.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #14  
I have an X590 with a 48” deck and a mulching kit. I notice that the cut isn’t as nice with the mulching kit as it is with the side discharge. I’m not super picky about the quality of cut but I do notice it. I just chalked it up to the mulching kit not allowing space for the clippings to discharge. I remove the blades and sharpen them at the beginning of the season too.

The only reason I use the mulching kit is so that we don’t blow grass clippings into the flower beds. It gives me the freedom to mow wherever I want without worrying about where I’m blowing the clippings. I might remove the mulching kit and alter my mowing technique to avoid the clippings in the flower beds. Without the mulching kit it mows cleaner and blows the clippings far out from the deck.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #15  
If your ground is smooth what I would do is set the 4 anti scalping wheels so low so the deck rides on them vs hanging from the mower. It's not the correct way to mow but it should tell you if it's a deck height problem or if it's something else, maybe a bent blade like Beenthere said. You only need to do a small section to see if the problem is still there. If I had to guess and if you are correct that it's happening in the center of the deck then I would guess that it's the front hanger for the deck that's out of adjustment. If not set correctly the middle blade could be tilted down. But it's just a guess.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #16  
Thanks everyone for all the replies. I apologize for not getting back sooner. I was traveling last week for work.

I have been running the throttle at full speed to ensure that the tip speed is up. I will plan on getting the gauge and checking the blade heights. I'm also going to look into the blowout kit to see if that helps.

I see a lot of people are running different blades than what comes in the John Deere Kit. Is there a recommendation for a better blade to be using?

I mowed yesterday and this time set the deck up a little higher. I was wondering if I was mowing too low and causing the deck to get bogged down. I didn't see much of a change.

I've attached pictures of my first pass as well as my second pass. The second pass is in the opposite direction of the first. I'm also battling the poplar tree fuzz right now too so that is making a huge mess.

View attachment 557786View attachment 557785View attachment 557787

Well, you ruled out full throttle and you have the gauges. You know, it almost looks like one of the blades is mounted wrong or bent. What I would do is start cutting a strip then stop the mower mid cut and shut it off. Find exactly where the missed grass blades line up on the mower deck and put a little piece of tape to mark the spot on the deck where it lines up. Get the mower up on a flat surface to measure the blade height. The mark will let you see if it falls right at the edge where two blades come together or smack in the middle of a single blade. Check the height of the blades as they rotate through the area of trouble vs. other areas as you turn it by hand. If all that checks out, I'd pull the deck off the tractor and flip it over. Make sure all the blades are the correct length and that one of them isn't bent. You can also check the spindles while you have it off the tractor. Make sure the spindles aren't warped in the problem area and make sure the blades are mounted correctly (i.e. not upside down, not offset, not at a funny angle).

Now as far as the blades go, that kind of depends on what will fit in your deck. I found the best mulching results so far with mine was a set of Gator blades with the mulching baffle left in place. The cut quality is great but only at a very specific and small rpm window because I'm not using the blades in the system they were designed for. Any rpm's below/above that range and I have to remove the mulching baffle. The Gators are high lift blades designed for side discharge so the best way to use them is without the baffle. I get a fantastic cut without the baffle but the mulched clippings are larger. I just played around one day and put the baffle back in and they work well with my baffle in. Most decks with a mulching kit left in place won't work well with the Gator blades. They tend to bog down with the kit in and create lots of turbulence which leads to uneven cutting. For some reason they work pretty well in my deck with the baffle still in and they don't bog down at all even on really high grass. They even handle 7-8 inch tall grass without clogging my deck. I was worried they might but they don't and they absolutely pulverize the grass to leave very little visible clippings when I leave the baffle in place. Grass only gets that tall when we have weeks of daily rain because I can't mow in wet conditions with my heavy tractor or it makes ruts. Only reasons I leave the mulching kit in place with the Gators on my deck is that it allows me to cut my lawn in multiple directions without throwing discharge into my flowerbeds. I change the direction and pattern I mow every week so trying to not get discharge in the beds is a nightmare without the mulching plug in place. Keep in mind the Gator blades won't even work in some decks with the mulching kit in place because they physically contact the baffles and it would cause damage.

I personally wouldn't look into new blades until you figure out what the real problem is right now. The other issue you might have if looking for new blades is you could go through a couple of sets of blades to find out what works best for your deck and your grass. That isn't a cheap process. The JD blades you have should work fine if you can figure out the problem. I only went with higher lift blades because of my grass type. It just wasn't getting lifted well because it is a course blade grass that I cut pretty darn short so it is pretty stiff and hard to lift.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Thanks for all the info and advice.

I went back and double checked the deck height, that turned out to be more a chore than I thought it would. I ended up having a very hard time finding a spot on my seemingly level drive way that actually was level. I did make a few minor adjustments however it didn't seem to make much of a difference in the cut quality. I would hope that I don't have any spindle issues or anything else like that, the mower is brand new and before cutting last night only had 11 hrs on it. I haven't had a chance to get to the dealer to get the gauge yet. I'm hoping to do that Friday. depending on what I find I may pull the deck off this weekend and take a look at everything.

After making a couple of passes I stopped midway on a pass took a picture of where the issue seems to be. it seems to be coming off the back right side almost in a perfect line with the edge of the right rear tire.

I also attached a couple of pictures from another midway pass stop I took, this one was on a side to side incline (last two pictures).

IMG_1868.JPGIMG_1868.JPGIMG_1869.JPGIMG_1870.JPGIMG_1871.JPGIMG_1872.JPGIMG_1873.JPGIMG_1874.JPG
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #18  
Well, I'm going to say this. If it is brand new, your dealer should be fixing this. My dealer would be all over it. I was looking at a used GT one time and he let me take it out and mow the front grass of the dealership. He saw the deck needed adjusting and had them fix it then let me mow a second strip. This was on a used machine. When I decided to buy a new 2305 he delivered it to my place an hour away. One of the FEL hydraulic lines wasn't tightened down correctly from the factory so on first use it shot about 1/2 gallons of fluid all over the yard and tractor. While cleaning it I noticed some paint damage on the FEL. He drove back to my place the very next day and handed me 5 gallons of hydraulic fluid and a rattle can of JD paint all on his dime. I'd start pressing your dealer to look into it for you. It really is their job especially if it is a new GT and it isn't cutting properly.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue #19  
I have to agree, talk to your dealer. The steering wheel on my used x500 broke (still under warranty) and the dealer that I bought it from was further away than one close to my work. Even though I didn't buy it there they went above and beyond. Not only did they make an adjustment to stop a belt rubbing on the mower deck and replace the steering wheel he also said that they would replace the seat because there's a small tear in it. I told them it was there when I bought it but he didn't care. He said keep using it and then when the warranty is closer to being up call him up and he'll get one on order if they don't have it in stock so they can replace it.
 
   / X570 Cut Quality Issue
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I'll stop back into the dealer and show them the pictures and see what they say. I mentioned this to them when I was in getting oil for the 8hr oil change and his response at the time was to just keep tweaking the settings a little. I wasn't thrilled about that answer but at the time I didn't have pictures to show him.
 

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