XR4150H Engine Failure

[TexasRust]

On Jan 2 I heard a knocking noise that no one wants to hear from their engine. Got a brief squeal as I got it on the trailer. The shop confirmed spun bearing in number three cylinder a couple of days later. Still waiting for further disassembly to try to determine why #3 spun. The only oddity so far is that the top of #3 piston and the combustion chamber are clean. Virtually spotless compared to #1 and #2.
Bought the tractor Oct 2016, but didn't run many on it initially. Still only put about 35 hours a month on it. The total hours are 1140, about 60 out from the next oil and filter change.
I've been using 15W40 in the LS and my 1978 L235DT for a number of years and the dealer confirmed that 15W40 is what they use. I've been using a WIX 51342 filter for the last 3-4 oil changes.
So anyone know of any other spun bearings on this l3c19-t engine? I'm aware that it is also used in New Holland and Case tractors, but I've not been able to a smoking gun that would led me to belief there is an underlying problem with this engine. Especially in reference to spun bearings or lubrication problems.
I'll add additional information as I get it. The cylinder walls look good, but I'm very interested in seeing the other rod bearing and the thrust bearing on the rear main.

 

[GS650GL]

No these engines don't see many failures except EGR valves and crank sensors and maybe a water pump occasionally. A bad injector a couple times. Some regen issues, 3 EGR coolers and a couple injection pumps. Only internal issue I've seen was a camshaft gear that came loose. This info came from a large dealer that sells 500 tractors a year. They only use synthetic 10W30 oil CK4 for emission engines. Depending on how long ago this tractor was sold, there is a 6 year powertrain warranty that covers internal engine parts.

 

[GS650GL]

Just saw that you bought it Oct 2016 so ignore the warranty part of the previous post.

 

[Avenger]

Yeah, thats weird. And its the first time I've heard of a spun bearing in this engine.

Typically, to get a spun bearing, many things need to go wrong inside the engine. These include high operating loads, excessive heat and a loss of lubrication at the same time. Think running a tiller in hard ground, engine at high rpm, and your engine is running very low on oil or your filter suddenly plugs up, oil pump dies, etc. You lose oil pressure, heat builds rapidly, and that little film of oil between the connecting rod and the crank shaft disappears leaving a hot metal on metal situation under high stress. This is one of the worst things to happen to an engine!

In this situation, a clean combustion chamber relative to the others, is odd. The fact that this happened on an engine with regular oil changes with proper oil and filters is odd. And this happened on an engine that has high (but not excessive) hours with 'normal' operation is odd. I put normal in quotes because with a clean combustion chamber, thats not necessarily normal, and I hope to understand why with future posts from the OP on the outcome.

Fixes are not going to be cheap! New bearing and likely new crank shaft. The crank journal can be resurfaced and the connecting rod bearing matched to fit the smaller diameter of the journal. But its probably best to simply replace the bearing (and possibly the rod if the original is damaged) and the crank. Might as well do all 3 while your there type of thing.

This is an important reminder to do regular service of your machines. Not saying that this tractor was not properly maintained, but it does compound and remind us to make sure that we use the proper oils, filters, coolants, etc on a regular basis.

I wish the OP good luck and please keep us updated! Not the best way to join TBN, but welcome anyway.

 

[TexasRust]

Thanks for the inputs. Dealer said the oil pump appeared to be functioning and the coolant temperature was normal when I shut it down. Cheap it is not. With labor being what it is, a short block is the recommendation.
As I indicated initially, I'm very interested in seeing the other bearings surfaces. Are they worn? It's hot and dusty in Texas. Are the service intervals adequate for the environment?

 

[Bobrown14]

I get a squeal when I start up my tractor in the cold. Makes me extremely nervous. I had a knock a while back but it was my crank shaft position sensor. Threw codes and went into limp mode or shut down I forgot which. I replaced the sensor and everything back to normal.

 

[TexasRust]

Most squeals come from the belts. Hard starting may come when the rod bearing starts to fail. My tractor would start, but it would pull the voltage down so far that the dash would reset. Thought I had a starter going, but it mat have been caused by extra friction from the rod bearing.

 

[JCoastie]

My tractor would start, but it would pull the voltage down so far that the dash would reset.

Is that what causes the dash to reset? Mine does that on occasion, it starts just fine, and then the dash will blank out and reset. I've been trying to catch it on video, but it only happens once in a while.

 

[TexasRust]

There may be more than one cause for the dash reset, but mine was caused by the battery voltage being pulled down too low when starting. I had checked the battery and the alternator. The next step was the starter, but the spun bearing occurred first. In hind sight, I'm thinking the friction from the failing bearing might be the cause. If it still happens after rebuilding with a new short block, I'll be back to the starter.

 

[90cummins]

A clean piston/combustion chamber is caused by oil consumption. The cylinder walls get their lubricant from rod bearing oil throw off.
My thought is the bearing had excessive clearance for sometime which threw excessive lubricant up the cylinder which cleaned the combustion chamber before it catastrophically failed.
My 2cents
90cummins

 

[TexasRust]

This engine uses oil jets instead of throwing oil from the rod to lubricate the cylinder walls, but clearance issues in the rod bearing certainly could have increased the amount of oil reaching the cylinder wall. Because of the hard cranking, I suspect the bearing started to fail a couple of weeks before it started knocking. Unfortunately, I didn't notice any changes in power output, vibration, or temperature. These tractors don't show oil pressure, which might have interesting to know. The idiot light doesn't trigger until less than 7PSI. After the short block is out of warranty, I plan to add an oil pressure gauge. Thank you or your input.

 

[90cummins]

Have you ever cut open your oil filters?
I have an oil filter cutter for the sole reason of keeping tabs on impending issues because I don’t do oil analysis.
I would not wait for the engine to get out of warranty before adding an oil pressure gauge. That should have no impact on warranty!
90cummins

 

[garry1p]

JCoastie​

I think its normal for the gauge to reset immediately after starting on the LS240.
Mine has done this since day 1.

 

[Avenger]

JCoastie​

I think its normal for the gauge to reset immediately after starting on the LS240.
Mine has done this since day 1.

Well, not exactly.
I did a video on this a while back. As the engine cranks, the battery's voltage drops causing the dash to lose power. It comes back on a second or two later. This is "normal" for stock batteries or batteries with similar CCA. Its not a huge issue, and can be lived with. But might also be an indicator of a dying battery.

This video shows the issue:

And this video was filmed a few weeks later when the battery actually died. Near the end of this video, around the 28:07 mark, I show how the new battery does not shut off the dash during startup.

 

[JCoastie]

I think its normal for the gauge to reset immediately after starting on the LS240.
Mine has done this since day 1.

Definitely not normal, mine only does that once in a while. I put it on the charger last night, we'll see if that makes a difference. It is still the original battery, purchased in 2020, haven't looked for a sticker on the battery to see the actual age.

 

[TexasRust]

The shop pulled the other two rod bearing and the main bearings. All surfaces appeared normal. There was no wear marks in the thrust bearing surfaces. I think I mentioned earlier that the cylinder walls don’t show excessive wear. The original cross hatching is clearly visible. So there are no indications of excessive wear or oil starvation. Maybe an assembly issue. This engine had 1140 hours on it. At my current rate of usage, this would be a little less than a year and a half. Well within the original warranty coverage period. Unfortunately, my maintenance records indicate the tractor had 514 hours on it when the warranty expired October 2021.

I’m no longer going to rely on the oil pressure switch for oil pressure. The lightly comes on when the pressure drops below 7 PSI. I’ll also start cutting open the filter canisters to look for flakes. In the past, I looked at the used lubricants with a magnet. I’m considering oil analysis for the engine and hydro-static transmission. A couple hundred bucks a year for oil analysis seems pretty cheap right now. I’m not sure that I would have had enough oil analysis data to have a feel for a trend, but if the previous oil change had shown a lot of bearing wear components, I might have had a heads up.

I appreciate all your inputs. Hopefully, no one else has to experience this on their tractor.

 

[JCoastie]

damn, but thanks for the update

 

[TexasRust]

In reference to the "battery issue", a failing battery was my first thought. My dash normally doesn't reset. So I took the 800CCA battery back to Walmart and their tester claimed it was good. Granted, I take battery tester info. from a high school student working at Walmart with a grain of salt, but it was still taking charge and the resting voltage level did not indicate a dead/dying cell even after sitting for a couple of weeks.
I agree that initial voltage drop in more indicative of a worn out battery, but previous batteries usually died soon after the dash reset started. This went on for weeks before the rod bearing spun. So I'm looking forward to seeing what happens after the engine is rebuilt with a new short block. If the dash reset continues, I'm back to battery or starter. I previously verified the alternator voltage output at the battery terminals and it matches the 14.5V that the dash shows. If the dash reset is gone, maybe the extra friction caused by the bearing going bad was the cause. Maybe not.

 

[TexasRust]

Anyone know what happened to the lstractorusa.con/parts/ website. I haven't been in there for a week or so and it's not what it use to be. No access to parts AGAIN. I guess I have to go back to the New Holland site to find part numbers again.

 

[TimberFarm]

Anyone know what happened to the lstractorusa.con/parts/ website. I haven't been in there for a week or so and it's not what it use to be. No access to parts AGAIN. I guess I have to go back to the New Holland site to find part numbers again.

Anytime I tried to look up parts from LS I got a page with my model on it, but then just blank. No actual parts or numbers ever listed.

What kind of warranty are they going to give you on that short block?