XR4155 Won't Stay Running

[alexpops]

What kind of voltage readings are you getting at the fuse panel? If less than what you're seeing at the battery, try cleaning the hot cable at the main fuse just off the + post. Won't fix fuel starvation, but might fix the crank sensor/non responsive hand throttle. Have you gotten a good look inside the tank? I don't know how long you had it parked, but if there was any water/condensation in the tank for any "length of time", you might have algae blocking the pickup screen. a little bit of biobore and polishing the fuel in the tank could take care of that. you'll need another fuel filter head & filter together with a pump to jury rig a polishing system ... youtube is your friend.
Here's one link,

but there are multiple variations on the same theme. When you blew out the line did you blow it back towards the tank to clear the pickup screen? or did you blow towards the filter? You want to blow towards the tank (think of back flushing a swimming pool filter). Good luck.

 

[Snowman87]

What kind of voltage readings are you getting at the fuse panel? If less than what you're seeing at the battery, try cleaning the hot cable at the main fuse just off the + post. Won't fix fuel starvation, but might fix the crank sensor/non responsive hand throttle. Have you gotten a good look inside the tank? I don't know how long you had it parked, but if there was any water/condensation in the tank for any "length of time", you might have algae blocking the pickup screen. a little bit of biobore and polishing the fuel in the tank could take care of that. you'll need another fuel filter head & filter together with a pump to jury rig a polishing system ... youtube is your friend.
Here's one link,

but there are multiple variations on the same theme. When you blew out the line did you blow it back towards the tank to clear the pickup screen? or did you blow towards the filter? You want to blow towards the tank (think of back flushing a swimming pool filter). Good luck.

Update:

- Voltage at the fuse panel matches voltage directly off the battery so it seems like I'm good there
- I haven't drained the tank but fuel looked good
- When I blew out the main line I blew it from the filter back to the tank
- I tried adding a low pressure fuel pump in with no improvement
- I went through and cracked each injector line lose to confirm fuel/remove air from the system while cranking and I've got fuel and some pressure

At this point I believe I have fuel but I'm not generating enough rail pressure for some reason. Hoping it's something simple like a bad injection metering valve.

I've got enough time into it at this point that I called the dealer on Friday. The guy I talked to gave me a couple more suggestions to try without luck, so I've got a tech on the way over this morning with his laptop and diagnostic software to check things out. I'll report back on what we find.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

 

[alexpops]

Sorry you had to go the dealer tech route. Please do let us know what they find & what the fix winds up being. I read somewhere on here that there may also be a fuel filter head issue on some of these LS's, but I can't remember the thread or how long ago (maybe year end 24?) -- Or if it was a "try" before replacing the hand throttle.

 

[Snowman87]

Took a while to find the problem but I think we did.

Walked the dealer tech through all my troubleshooting notes and continued to go down the fuel route:

- Verified all injectors pulsed with dealer software
- Verified inlet metering valve functioned - pulled to cycle and I was happy to see that the screen was clean (I really thought this was going to be the issue)
- Verified rail pressure was high enough to start (there is a minimum rail pressure for the injectors to cycle)
- Tech did a bunch of other stuff using his software

After a couple hours the tech called into the service rep to run some reading values. Service rep confirmed all the fuel stuff looked good and suggested checking out the turbo (already checked the intake) and then the DPF filter. Tech could see the soot load looked fine in his software so he started with the turbo. Pulled the intake side boot off the turbo to find that the turbo wheel wouldn't spin... We were able to get it to move with a screw driver but no amount of air is going to make the turbine spin. We tried pulling the outlet side boot off the compressor but still couldn't get it to start - it's like we were fighting makeup air from the EGR.

At face value I was really surprised to find this as the tractor ran fine when it was parked - never leaked oil (turbo seals), never smoked, or felt like it had a loss of power. They didn't have a replacement turbo assembly on the shelf so he ordered one and it should be in around 1-2 weeks. Will report back if that solves the issue but I think it will.

I asked a bunch of questions and learned a few more things:

- The dealer tech has been with the local dealer for about 10 years and figures they have 500+ tractors in the field
- Overall he feels they've had very good luck with LS out in the field, and noted that many other brands use LS as their chassis (I knew New Holland did on their boomer series but apparently others as well)
- They have had turbos fail, though not typically at 500 hours like me. LS uses a different turbo design now and programs in a warmup time before you can throttle up.
- LS uses a new EGR design, so if my current setup fails it will require replacing the full intake manifold. Sounds like emissions are the most common issue like other diesel industries.
- Not many injector pump issues - only had one story of some terrible quality fuel (rust, water, sludge, etc.) taking out a pump
- Have replaced some injectors but not a significant amount

All-in-all, I'm glad I called though it hurt my self-pride. I would have continued to fight the fuel side without the ability to see what the dealer tech could see with his software, telling him that wasn't the issue. Hindsight I could have worked farther down the intake air side (I pulled off the intake cover and verified filters were clean) to find what we did, but there's so much more that could have been wrong that I couldn't test - EGR valve, air control valve, etc.

 

[alexpops]

Well ... at least you know you're not crazy, AND you have a potential answer. Just out of curiosity as someone who may face this at some point in my future... did he give you an estimate on the turbo cost? Also, if you get the "new" turbo design, a part number, as well as the bill for upgrading the software for the "warm-up delay". (I'm assuming that despite low hours you are not covered by any warranty)

 

[GS650GL]

Sometimes just replacing the bad crank sensor isn't enough. The dealer's service tool laptop may have to be used to clear the codes and do a crank sensor reset, then a manual regen is sometimes necessary. Some fault codes will not allow a regen to occur, so the soot load in the DPF gets too high and sometimes the DPF gets plugged to the point that the engine can't run and a regen can't clean it out. The tech should not rely on the service tool only to determine the soot load, he needs to take the DPF apart and visually check it. There are a couple service bulletins on how to check for DPF plugging. The bad turbo should still allow the engine to start, but it would smoke alot and have low power. Try disconnecting the DPF from the turbo and see if it will start. If it does, the DPF is plugged.

The latest engine software now has a turbo protection mode that will not allow the engine to throttle up too soon after starting so there will be sufficient oil pressure to the turbo. The original EGR valve has been discontinued by the manufacturer, (not LS) so when there is no stock left of replacements, it will have to be converted to the new Kamtech EGR valve. Kits will be available to change the manifold, EGR piping, engine wiring harness, and the engine software will have to be updated to work with the new valve. LS had no choice in this because the original style EGR valves are no longer available. Their only option is to convert to the new style, but alot is involved in converting them and I was told it's at least a 3 hour job and the instructions for the conversion kits are 72 pages. There is a 5 year emissions warranty to cover the EGR and the turbo, as well as the fuel system.. The 6 year power train warranty only covers engine parts that are internal, completely enclosed inside the engine block, oil pan, and valve cover.

 

[Cycledude]

Glad to see it sounds like they may have figured out the problems with your XR4155. Unfortunately sounds like it’s going to be pretty expensive to fix.
Have you always done the recommended cooldown the turbo time before shutdown ?

 

[Snowman87]

Well ... at least you know you're not crazy, AND you have a potential answer. Just out of curiosity as someone who may face this at some point in my future... did he give you an estimate on the turbo cost? Also, if you get the "new" turbo design, a part number, as well as the bill for upgrading the software for the "warm-up delay". (I'm assuming that despite low hours you are not covered by any warranty)

I didn't even ask what a new turbo assembly cost... My guess is ~$1,300-1,700 for the turbo assembly based on my online searching. I didn't find the exact one for my tractor but did find one for the XU/MT series.

I pulled the turbo off myself to prep things, only a handful of bolts. I took my time and torched everything in effort not to break any bolts/studs. When removed I found the exhaust turbine/housing was full of oily residue/buildup. It would appear like my turbo seals have been leaking oil into the exhaust for quite some time... For fun I tried cleaning things up and putting it back on to see if I would get lucky, no such thing...

Dealer tech forgot his coat at my place so he swung by after I had things pulled apart. He recommended pulling the DPF filter off to have a look, so I did that as well. It doesn't look completely plugged but pretty ugly for 500 hours... I did some online researching and intend to do a degrease (remove oil), inspect, and then use diluted muriatic acid if there's a bunch of soot buildup.

For fun I reached out TM Ag Tuning about options. Sounds like they offer an ECU tuning solution for the EGR/DPF for $2k, but no exhaust components are included. Thought is that either you hollow out the original DPF filter or fabricate your own turbo-back setup.

I've owned this tractor since 50 hours and always took good care of it - good fuel, annual synthetic oil changes, annual fuel filter changes, reasonable warm up time (not I am in Wisconsin where it gets very cold), etc. I'm chalking this up as a premature turbo failure, maybe one of the reasons they changed the design... I'm still really surprised I didn't notice any smoking, loss of power, or trip any codes... Crossing my fingers this gets me back in business.

 

[ruffdog]

That is one bad case of tractor constipation....plugged up outlet side. Are you able to get the tractor good and hot from hard work like pulling plows or pto work?

 

[shooterdon]

I get razed about waiting the recommended time so throttle up and shut down but do it religiously. Hope that prevents a costly repair. Only 330 hours on my machine. Run it at minimum 1700 rpm even when doing light work.