Yanmar 1601d electrical repairs worth it?

California · Sep 17, 2019

LouNY said:
An English translation of that electrical schematic would be of great assistance in troubleshooting

Here's the schematic for earlier, simpler YM240 with everything identified in English.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...0d-volt-reg-wells-vr728-557466-yam240elec-gif

I don't know if the YM1601 in this thread has a conventional automotive alternator and regulator but that's what's in this YM240 schematic, so that might be a major difference.

Things like headlights, horn, clutch safety switch, thermostart should be similar. If the YM1601 schematic has an 'extra' warning light in the dash that might be a battery-water-low warning, used on some models.

CoyPatton · Sep 18, 2019

If you left the regulator unplugged throughout your testing of the battery voltage, there is why you show consistently the same battery voltage. The dyno will send unregulated voltage to the regulator.
I agree that you have a short in a wire! Probably a bare wire against metal. You had a heat feedback to the one wire from the regulator by looking at the picture of your connector. Start by tracing that wire from the connector to its other end. We know it had a lot of heat in that wire. For that reason you may want to replace it completely as insulation is likely melted and resistance of that wire compromised (increased).
Then trace the wires from the 5 amp fuse.
Good luck. And ask for help when you need it.

clemsonfor · Sep 18, 2019

What they said. I didn't think any more about this after my post, sorry. Just forgot. As I was reading it I was not taking it in really just reading. But you know where that problem lies now. These are simple circuits. It may be easiest to do as Coy says. Just pull all that wire out and just replace it just as it was as you go. You will be bound to find the issue along the way. Sometimes in wireing it's just simple to run all new wire than to try and trouble shoot, usually the case in much simpler circuits but I agree the heat on that wire was the whole length and the insulation softens and where it touched something it probably melted through or most of the way through there too. So there is probably a chaffed spot and possibly another one where that wore hugged the body. And often they will also melt to another wire and be stuck to it. So you may have to physically pull two apart or cut them apart.

CoyPatton · Sep 18, 2019

clemsonfor said:
What they said. I didn't think any more about this after my post, sorry. Just forgot. As I was reading it I was not taking it in really just reading. But you know where that problem lies now. These are simple circuits. It may be easiest to do as Coy says. Just pull all that wire out and just replace it just as it was as you go. You will be bound to find the issue along the way. Sometimes in wireing it's just simple to run all new wire than to try and trouble shoot, usually the case in much simpler circuits but I agree the heat on that wire was the whole length and the insulation softens and where it touched something it probably melted through or most of the way through there too. So there is probably a chaffed spot and possibly another one where that wore hugged the body. And often they will also melt to another wire and be stuck to it. So you may have to physically pull two apart or cut them apart.

I have done so much automotive electrical repair on the past 40+ years, that thinking about it is just not an issue. Unfortunately when a failure happens there is never a single one issue. But there are common hints. The burnt connection is one of those. Those connectors while state of the art in the late 70’s and early 80’s, are far behind todays connectors, but then so are the electrical requirements of that tractor. That all aside, signs of heat/ burning are good indicators of the initial problem. As you say, it could be a cut through insulation where it has rubbed on a sharp metal edge for 35+ years or a longer rub through from the vibrations.
Also unfortunately the melted connector could be unrelated to the 5 amp fuse being blown.
Electrical issues requires lots of patience and time as well as knowledge. The good part on these old yannies is almost all of the testing can be done with a test light. A digital multimeter was unknown when they were built, it was analog volt/ohm meters all they way back then.

careyo63 · Sep 18, 2019

California said:
Here's the schematic for earlier, simpler YM240 with everything identified in English.
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...0d-volt-reg-wells-vr728-557466-yam240elec-gif

I don't know if the YM1601 in this thread has a conventional automotive alternator and regulator but that's what's in this YM240 schematic, so that might be a major difference.

Things like headlights, horn, clutch safety switch, thermostart should be similar. If the YM1601 schematic has an 'extra' warning light in the dash that might be a battery-water-low warning, used on some models.

Both the 1601 & 169 are 3cyl 16Hp. Tractor Data. So it would almost have to be close. Forgot I had this one so it's worth a post. I do have the whole manual for the 169 but the file for it is to big to download on here. I was able to get the Dia out though. If it works and you want the manual for the 169 then message me and try to email it to you. There only a couple Yrs. aprt in production with the same body stlye so I'm thinking it should be it.

Chrxis1900 · Sep 18, 2019

Well I am encouraged that this seems to be in my abilities to fix. Also that i haven't destroyed anything yet.

my biggest fear currently is mixing up wires or forgetting where they went. Needless to say lots of pictures as I go. I will look at these diagrams and see if they are similar to what the tractor has. That could really help if I mix it up. I will be posting as I proceed. Thank you all for leading me through the process.

clemsonfor · Sep 18, 2019

Chrxis1900 said:
Well I am encouraged that this seems to be in my abilities to fix. Also that i haven't destroyed anything yet. my biggest fear currently is mixing up wires or forgetting where they went. Needless to say lots of pictures as I go. I will look at these diagrams and see if they are similar to what the tractor has. That could really help if I mix it up. I will be posting as I proceed. Thank you all for leading me through the process.

Only disconnect one thing as you go since you are not confident. This system is so simple it should be possible. Also taking tape and labeling where a wire goes is fool proof as well.

CoyPatton · Sep 18, 2019

While I tend to in general agree with the one wire one thing at a time, some times you will need to run more than 1 just because of the way things ate laid out. When you hit this spot, multi colors of wire are the solution. As much as possible use the same color as is currently in place. Also try to leave the existing wires or at leas a short pieces until the new wire is in place.
One caution, be sure to use at least the same gauge wire. Never ever for any reason use a smaller gauge wire. And remember a higher number for wire gauge is a smaller wire.
Finally you have it covered.

careyo63 · Sep 18, 2019

Here's were I found the manual I'm pretty sure. So use this link and down load it. Or just look at the pages you want. It's just to big for TBN...........
.

YANMAR YM169 SERVICE MANUAL Pdf Download.

Chrxis1900 · Sep 19, 2019

careyo63 said:
Here's were I found the manual I'm pretty sure. So use this link and down load it. Or just look at the pages you want. It's just to big for TBN...........
.YANMAR YM169 SERVICE MANUAL Pdf Download.

Thank you. I will give it a look and hopefully it will match up well.

careyo63 · Sep 20, 2019

I had that Manual on a old zip drive. And just happened to find it. Get your Reg. Dyno/Alt going. Rewire/check that circuit. The Starter and solenoid didn't match. But Hoye does have a pic. of them and the solenoid looks the same so you should be Okay there. From my parts book and Hoye's parts every thing matches up the same :thumbsup: The Dyno. Alt. Regulator. Key switch are the same. Starter Solenoid just because it not the exact one for some reason from the looks it wires the same so your good there. Get those circuits checked rewired etc. and you got it. Plus now you have a Wire Dia. and manual so it shows how they wire. Big+...........

CoyPatton · Sep 20, 2019

As I have never in person seen a US model Yanmar tractor of this vintage, my only concern on using a wiring diagram for an Japanese model, would be US specifications that may not have been included on the non US models.
Again the Japanese YM’s electrical are straight forward enough that if comfortable with 70’s and even early 80’s automotive wiring, you should have no trouble following the wires and making needed repairs.
I encourage replacement of any wires that seem to have issues for several reasons. These wires are largely not protected beyond the insulation on the wire (no looms for the most part). And any wire that has been exposed to excessive heat has an increase in resistance.

Having expressed the concern on the US model diagrams, they are still the best guides we have.
Also you might wish to purchase the manuals offered by Hoye.
Again you can do it with just basic knowledge of 12 volt electrical circuits.
If you hit spots you have questions about, ask questions here and if you can post pictures.

careyo63 · Sep 20, 2019

Your good Very common for Hoye and even Fredricks to have to use the closest manual to the model you need it for. I already spent my time and checked everything. Call Hoye or even Fredricks if you may not be sure. These wiring Harnesses are so Open It's very unlikely that you don't see a problem with Burn/broken wire. All you have to do is give them a call and see what they have to offer. But in this case there's almost no doubt the manual works and is the same. Now if somebody wth 52yrs. experience they say and been in the wiring and has changed something then that's another problem to straighten out. Anyone can Blah Blah Blah Talk about all the experience that have on something else say a car which is a whole and almost totally different. A Dyno on a car for instance I have to go and do some things and think if I ever recall having one on a car A few people know how long I've been around Vehicles. The Yanmar roll over problem would be a good one back then. My Father and mother for that matter even my aunt that worked at the court house then. Check it out if any doubt what you have to work with and you can take it to the bank that if there was a problem with it you would have heard it by now . You have things to do now so will talk to you later.......

CoyPatton · Sep 20, 2019

Chris1900, if you want any help from me ask it of me. Otherwise since a differing opinion is now a reason to make personal attacks towards others, I shall bow out of this topic.
Shame others feel that way. Personally, I never knew things had to be done one way only, but apparently I have been taught wring on that score.
Perhaps doing it wrong also!

Chrxis1900 · Jan 23, 2020

Update, I have removed the tape from the wires that were under the console. I traced the wires from the 5amp fuse and the dummy lights/gauges. No sign of damage or defective wires. I decided to tape everything back up and move on since the tractor runs fine. I am waiting on an hour meter cable to arrive and will reattach the sheet metal. If the problem is magically fixed when I start it back up so be it. If not, I will add an aftermarket temperature gauge and continue on. Thank you all for helping me along.

CoyPatton · Jan 25, 2020

Chrxis1900 said:
Update, I have removed the tape from the wires that were under the console. I traced the wires from the 5amp fuse and the dummy lights/gauges. No sign of damage or defective wires. I decided to tape everything back up and move on since the tractor runs fine. I am waiting on an hour meter cable to arrive and will reattach the sheet metal. If the problem is magically fixed when I start it back up so be it. If not, I will add an aftermarket temperature gauge and continue on. Thank you all for helping me along.

I went back and looked at the original post. There you had a pictured posted of your voltage regulator with the wire harness connection with 1 melted contact. It is possible that your problem may be internal to the regulator. Or it could be that the connection inside that connector provided too great of resistance. Prior to replacing the regulator, I would do the following and I would probably bypass that wire connection within that connector if the following shows no issues.
However, I strongly suggest you trace the wire on the other end of that connector to ensure that it is in good condition.
Yes that encompasses many factors but start with a good close visual inspection. If anything hints at failing this, replace that wire. If visual inspection does not reveal any issues, do a resistance test on that wire using a multimeter. (There are youtube videos that explain this if you are not sure how to do this). A wire that has gotten hot will have greater resistance. Compare it to a wire of the same gauge and same length if it provides anything but no resistance.
Wiring issues are not complicated, but can be elusive.
Good luck!

bmaverick · Feb 3, 2020

CoyPatton said:
I went back and looked at the original post. There you had a pictured posted of your voltage regulator with the wire harness connection with 1 melted contact. It is possible that your problem may be internal to the regulator. Or it could be that the connection inside that connector provided too great of resistance. Prior to replacing the regulator, I would do the following and I would probably bypass that wire connection within that connector if the following shows no issues.
However, I strongly suggest you trace the wire on the other end of that connector to ensure that it is in good condition.
Yes that encompasses many factors but start with a good close visual inspection. If anything hints at failing this, replace that wire. If visual inspection does not reveal any issues, do a resistance test on that wire using a multimeter. (There are youtube videos that explain this if you are not sure how to do this). A wire that has gotten hot will have greater resistance. Compare it to a wire of the same gauge and same length if it provides anything but no resistance.
Wiring issues are not complicated, but can be elusive.
Good luck!

I would agree with Coy here.

One item to add, electrical gets faulty should the terminal crimp to the wire isn't solid. Thus, the terminal on that wire in a connector can go bad. Old school is, when re-building the wire connection to the terminal, place a tiny bit of solder to leak into the crimped area. I've had vehicle over the years that the wire-terminal in the connector went bad and NOT the vehicle PCM/ECM (computer). Fixed the wire contact to the terminal and all the electrical gremlins went away.

Ruslan_UA · Feb 25, 2024

Щиро вітаю!
У мене така ж проблема на тракторі. Чим закінчилися пошуки причини несправності?

bmaverick · Feb 25, 2024

Ruslan_UA said:
Щиро вітаю!
У мене така ж проблема на тракторі. Чим закінчилися пошуки причини несправності?

відповідь була згадана тут, #35

Yanmar 1601d electrical repairs worth it?

I had that Manual on a old zip drive. And just happened to find it. Get your Reg. Dyno/Alt going. Rewire/check that circuit. The Starter and solenoid didn't match. But Hoye does have a pic. of them and the solenoid looks the same so you should be Okay there. From my parts book and Hoye's parts...

www.tractorbynet.com

Він зняв скотч з проводів, які були під панеллю консолі.
Потім простежте дроти від 5-амперного запобіжника та тьмяних лампочок/датчиків.
Не було жодних ознак пошкодження або несправних проводів.
Вирішив заклеїти проводку скотчем і рухатися далі, оскільки трактор працює добре.
Замовив новий кабель-лічильник годин. Чекаю на прибуття посилки і прикріплю.
Якщо проблему чарівним чином усунути при запуску трактора, то залишиться в спокої.
В іншому випадку я додам датчик температури після продажу. Дякую всім за допомогу.

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Не впевнений, чи будуть гарні відповіді.