Yanmar or Kukje?

[Torvy]

Looking at TYM and in the sizes I need, they have essentially the same tractors but with different engines. The Yanmar is common rail, the Kukje is indirect injection. What do I need to know?

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Aren't BOTH diesels indirect injection???

That really doesn't have anything to do with common rail or not...

SR

 

[Boswell]

Why Kukje Diesel Tractor Engines Are In a Class All Their Own

Everything You Need to Know About Kukje Diesel Tractor Engines and What Makes Them So Excellent

www.teamtractor.com

Hope this link works. Certainly has one man's opinion but lots of factual information as well.

The Kukje diesel engines offered in both TYM and Branson tractors are simply an A-series Cummins.

 

[Roadworthy]

Do a network search. Diesels are direct injection. Common rail is a newer technology and generally more fuel efficient. It is normally computer controlled and can adapt more quickly to changing conditions. It also tends to run cleaner.

 

[etpm]

Do a network search. Diesels are direct injection. Common rail is a newer technology and generally more fuel efficient. It is normally computer controlled and can adapt more quickly to changing conditions. It also tends to run cleaner.

I dunno about the engines mentioned in this thread but my 40 year old Yanmar diesel engine is indirect injection.
Eric

 

[the old grind]

Isn't 'indirect' injection just with a pre-chamber while 'direct' has none? P-C could be a regular thing with common rail injection but may be less important with computer control than with traditional pop-off injectors. Computers will compensate for timing by more than rpm, taking load into consideration. Cleaner burn and perhaps greater economy are part of that sophistication.

 

[etpm]

Isn't 'indirect' injection just with a pre-chamber while 'direct' has none? P-C could be a regular thing with common rail injection but may be less important with computer control than with traditional pop-off injectors. Computers will compensate for timing by more than rpm, taking load into consideration. Cleaner burn and perhaps greater economy are part of that sophistication.

Yes, indirect has a little chamber.
Eric

 

[bmaverick]

Do a network search. Diesels are direct injection. Common rail is a newer technology and generally more fuel efficient. It is normally computer controlled and can adapt more quickly to changing conditions. It also tends to run cleaner.

Since the mid-90s, Mitsubishi tractors in the K3 & K4 Series and newer can be equipped with either indirect injection (IDI) or direct injection (DI). So, nothing is very new about either of the the fuel delivery methods.

 

[bmaverick]

Isn't 'indirect' injection just with a pre-chamber while 'direct' has none? P-C could be a regular thing with common rail injection but may be less important with computer control than with traditional pop-off injectors. Computers will compensate for timing by more than rpm, taking load into consideration. Cleaner burn and perhaps greater economy are part of that sophistication.

Now that is very revealing. Why would ANYONE right now want computer control. I know of a few owners with their tractors being down waiting on parts that have up to a 24 month delay on computer chip assemblies. Could you afford being without your machine for 24 months ??? All to save maybe an ounce or two of fuel per tank?

Back in 1998 there was a publication called, When The Chips Are Down, What Will You Do?. I forget the author/blogger in that era. The 14-chapters covered many instances of why computer controls can be overkill for convivence vs the necessity of doing the job. The book covered Y2K, UNIX, EMP and other ways the chips could go down and what to expect in a world without them. Oddly, in the Y2K chapter, life would just begin to level off in the year 2020 towards a recovery.

With the supply chain broken and with limited output, now is not the time to rely on chips. Dang tractors have been around longer than any other machine. In a SHTF event, tractors with no chips are a key source for all kinds of uses.

 

[the old grind]

"We must unite to eradicate these spiteful and insidious computer-control mandates!"

btw, a sickle was good enough for my Grandfather, it's good enough for me.

 

[bmaverick]

"We must unite to eradicate these spiteful and insidious computer-control mandates!" btw, a sickle was good enough for my Grandfather, it's good enough for me.

A good running Ford 8N with a 3PT PTO driven sickle works so well for pasture grasses over those expensive cutters today. Neither pieces of machinery need a computer chip to do the job.

 

[the old grind]

My sickle might could use an 8N but even with its low seat I still pro'ly couldn't reach down far enough to use it.

btw, who want's to depend on a tractor if there could be another fuel shortage? Horses were good enough for my Grandfather, they're good enough for me.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Diesels are built both ways, with "direct" injection, AND with "indirect" injection...

As I said earlier, neither has anything to do with common rail!

I prefer indirect, but EPA doesn't like them without common rail though, because of emission standards...

SR

 

[Roadworthy]

I went surfing. Direct and indirect injection diesels both use the pop off type injectors where each is fed separately by the injection pump. Timing and duration are mechanically controlled. There are pros and cons to direct versus indirect injection. Common rail generally runs at a higher pressure and all injectors have full pressure fuel available to them at all times. A control unit reads various engine parameters to decide when each injector opens and for how long. An individual injector may open three to seven times during a given cycle. Common rail is more complicated than the mechanical method but in many cases is required to meet EPA rules.

 

[rScotty]

Looking at TYM and in the sizes I need, they have essentially the same tractors but with different engines. The Yanmar is common rail, the Kukje is indirect injection. What do I need to know?

Here is a short article that talks about the difference in unbiased terms.
In general, common rail motors will be direct injection and have computers to control the electronic injection. They are more modern.
Mechanically injected motors will generally be indirect injection and are the old reliable simple diesels for many decades.

Yes, there are exceptions. Injection geometry isn't everything.

Both can have emissions control systems - which get more complex as the hp goes up. Under 25 hp the systems can be simple.

Indirect vs Direct Injection Diesels

Comparison and differences between indirect injection (IDI) and direct injection (DI) diesel engines. Due to greater efficiency and modern advances in diesel technology, direct injection diesel engine designs have altogether replaced the IDI design.

www.dieselhub.com

 

[Snobdds]

Diesels are built both ways, with "direct" injection, AND with "indirect" injection...

As I said earlier, neither has anything to do with common rail!

I prefer indirect, but EPA doesn't like them without common rail though, because of emission standards...

SR

Is it possible to have a common rail and Indirect injection. I can't think of one engine in that category, but I'm curious if there is.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I can't name one off the top of my head, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't one. SR

 

[Torvy]

Do a network search. Diesels are direct injection. Common rail is a newer technology and generally more fuel efficient. It is normally computer controlled and can adapt more quickly to changing conditions. It also tends to run cleaner.

The Kukje available on the TYM 4 series tractors are indirect. The Yanmar in the same sizes are Common Rail Direct Injection.

One of the reasons I am asking the questions is that the dealer I worked with this past weekend said he will not even order the Yanmar equipped versions. The gear transmission on the Kukje is 8x8 SS, the Yanmar versions are 16 x 16 SS. They do have HST. I have always heard Yanmar engines were good, I'm not sure why he would avoid them. I don't know enough about either to know if I even care.

 

[ptsg]

The Kukje available on the TYM 4 series tractors are indirect. The Yanmar in the same sizes are Common Rail Direct Injection.

One of the reasons I am asking the questions is that the dealer I worked with this past weekend said he will not even order the Yanmar equipped versions. The gear transmission on the Kukje is 8x8 SS, the Yanmar versions are 16 x 16 SS. They do have HST. I have always heard Yanmar engines were good, I'm not sure why he would avoid them. I don't know enough about either to know if I even care.

No Branson dealer nearby? They offer a 16x16 fully synchronized transmission on the 20 series. Shuttle, main gears and also the range gears, all synchronized, which is a great feature.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The Kukje diesel engines offered in both TYM and Branson tractors are simply an A-series Cummins.

AND the A series Cummins is simple an Onan designed/built diesel engine, that is now called "Cummins" because Cummins bought Onan.

Then Cummins licensed Kukje to build the Onan design.

SR