Yard sales and cell phones. (rant)

[Farmwithjunk]

My observation only: unless the criminal or addict sees their behavior in stark moral terms, they will not change!!! the rest of the time it's warehousing, stopgate measures, it may extend the life of an individual, but will not change the ignorance that traps a human into obsession and compulsive destruction one drink or drug at a time.... We have to let them hurt, I believe only deep pain can open eyes. Most will stay blind, but it could be because they get pampered by misguided liberal know-it-alls.

When we talked with the councelors, they kept speaking about "enabling". We enable bad behavior by fussing at them. (put them on the defensive) We enable them by taking their drink/drug away from them. (challenges them to get another bottle/drug) We enable them by making excuses for their behavior (one I happened to agree with) It seems that anything short of ignoring the offender and allowing them to do as they please is diagnosed as enabling. My personal view is "enable" them to pay and pay dearly. They have to hit bottom to "get it". In my world, they'd get an all expenses paid one way trip straight to that bottom.

Mom used to tell me to "embrase guilt" when I felt bad about doing something wrong. "Guilt is your friend" she'd tell me. "Guilt will protect you". I miss my mom.

 

[Defective]

By my way of thinking...

We "enable" them by not slapping them down until they cannot do further damage to those around them.

This does not only apply to drug abuse!

 

[patrick_g]

It might be real interesting to define criminals and why the existing laws decree them criminals.

Are the laws correct or are they imposing a set of rules that may/may not be in accordance with the the good 10 items to follow.

It is an issue that is greater than most of us are able to comprehend.

Egon, Civilizations exist in a Darwinian milieu. They are like organisms which must do what is required for self perpetuation or suffer extinction. Without considering the rightness or wrongness of man judging man or setting rules beyond the 10 you allude to realize that these are some of the things that permit people to live in proximity to one another in what we call a civilized manner.

If the organism (civilization) fails to protect itself and its constituent parts it dies. Like defending against germs, cancer, or a virus, the body has to to what is required to survive or it dies. To insist on kindly treatment for cancer cells or disease agents, bacteria and such would bring a species to extinction.

I am not arguing for or against extensions to God's laws only explaining that without them we can't live together in an organized fashion and chaos would rein. Sure, there is a difficulty in finding a balance between controlling individuals in a society and providing them the freedom to enjoy their brief existence. Still, anarchy is a dangerous state of affairs and is not conducive to masses of folks cooperating for the common good by agreeing on things like which side of the road to drive on and how fast to drive past a grade school in session. Just because school zones were not mentioned in the King James version of the Bible doesn't mean they aren't a good thing.

If (and this is a GIANT IF) everyone lived in strict accordance with the 10 commandments and the golden rule we could shut down the criminal justice system.

So what do you think we should do when someone violates "Thou shall not kill?" Turning the other cheek is not conducive to maintaining order in the group.

So, from a completely secular point of view, what actions are incumbent on a society in order for it to perpetuate itself so that it exists over time to provides a framework in which individuals may live in harmony with the most personal freedom possible without encroaching on the liberty and freedom of others? For the most part I think the answer to the above verbose question is for the most part what we have.

I think we have too much restriction, too much government, too much waste, and on and on but there are plenty of those of a different philosophy who are as we speak trying to set the stage for expanding government in every imaginable way. I don't want to start a political wrangling so I shall refrain from further comment regarding the wife of any past president, brother of any assassinated president, or a smooth talker with near total voting record of socialist like the Obamanator.

So, Egon, we can't all be hermits and we sure don't all follow the golden rule and the 10 commandments so we either make and enforce laws and rules or the group living experiment we call civilization will be a cancer that will eat us up.

Pat

 

[6sunset6]

I heard that in China if you are in jail your family is responsible for feeding you. Sounds good to me.

 

[Egon]

Pat:

As always I have great difficulties try to express my opinions.

Guess what I am trying to say is that the law is neither fairly or even reasonably enforced. You may say this is not so but no, look at situations.

At one time there was a country in which the drinking of coffee was illegal??

You are supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Why then are the costs of the defence not rebated to those who are acquitted. IE - the more qualified the legal council the better the chance of acquittal. Means that the wealthy have better chances in court.

Then there are those that have sufficient influence to ensure their wishes become law. Ooh yes- Ti's true.

Up here north of 49 there have been more than one convicted murderer absolved by DNA testing. In most of these cases the original conviction had serious flaws without the DNA.

Then there are the cases of homicide that are sorta overlooked because of racial bias. Again very true up here with some really nice scenarios and cover ups.

Sooo - what I say is that the law may provide guidance but the application of said law may be flawed!

Lots of Psychology courses on a topic like this.

So where does that leave a criminal??

I'm convinced so do not try and change my opinion.

seeing as I have no wealth or influence my opion is moot at the best!