Yard sales and cell phones. (rant)

[Farmwithjunk]

Other drivers on the road DO NOT SEE YOU and you have to ride that way. Always assume the drivers around you will do something stupid, e.g. they will turn in front of you, they will cut you off, they will jam on their brakes in front of you, etc.. Always have an escape plan for when they do and as Robert_in_NY said, NEVER deliberately put yourself in a dangerous circumstance, and if you do, get out of it ASAP. For me, riding a motorcycle took A LOT more concentration than driving a car. While the sense of 'freedom' on a motorcycle was almost intoxicating, so was the sense of vulnerability.

Not that I actually BELIEVE it to be true, but when I'm out on the road on the Harley, I take the approach that every moving vehicle is TRYING to run me down. I assume they don't see me, or that they do and are trying to do something stupid. Defense almost to the point it's offense.

I ride the bike to work one or two days a week during nice weather. (Never was so "die-hard" as to ride intentionally on rainy or cold days) I have an alternate route that keeps me off the interstate but out of busy "rush hour traffic" as much as possible. Nearly 40 years of riding, averaging thousands of miles per year, has taught me that even the very best, the very safest riders are vulnerable to that one idiot who's not paying attention.

In spite of the fact that I moan and groan about road ragers, "non drivers", and overly aggressive drivers, I still don't let them upset me. I try to take away some positive from every negative life throws my way. My consolation prize for dealing with clowns on the highway? I'm just happy I'm NOT one of them (to my knowledge) I AM very aware of them though. This thread has pointed out just how common retaliatory driving tactics do occur. And how many people believe it's alright to do so.

 

[patrick_g]

Dan, Back in my days as an undergrad physics student I performed lots of experiments, many with nonintuitive results. One I did a couple times was to compare the drive time from the University to the lab where I worked as a student slave. I used a 1943 Ford built military Jeep with really slow speed differential (hard to exceed 50 and that took really winding it up.) For the other half of the experiment I used my Sunbeam Tiger (165MPH capable.) I tried to make the trip as fast as possible in the Tiger both ways a couple times (without getting too crazy in traffic but punching it when in the open.) I did the same (well, more or less, mostly less!) in the Jeep.

The average time difference was almost 3 min and the greatest difference never exceeded 5 min. Lets look at that. Drive as fast as is possible without being totally suicidal vs accelerating really modestly and driving about 45 or a tad over while glued to the right lane on the freeway and trying to keep up with traffic on the slower streets.

It was crystal clear that there was no use to try to "push it" because it just didn't make a significant difference. Why risk tickets, accidents, injury, harming someone else, and on and on to shave about 3 min off of a 30-40 min trip?

Before I get flamed for recklessness... A good portion of the section of freeway where I "hustled" was very sparsely traveled at the times when I performed the experiments. I do not offer my "youth" as a defense, it was wrong to do it and I wouldn't repeat it nor recommend it. I only share the results of the experiment to emphasize the fact that there is usually not a gain at stake sufficient to warrant the risk.

Pat

 

[patrick_g]

Not that I actually BELIEVE it to be true, but when I'm out on the road on the Harley, I take the approach that every moving vehicle is TRYING to run me down. I assume they don't see me, or that they do and are trying to do something stupid. Defense almost to the point it's offense.

I ride the bike to work one or two days a week during nice weather. (Never was so "die-hard" as to ride intentionally on rainy or cold days) I have an alternate route that keeps me off the interstate but out of busy "rush hour traffic" as much as possible. Nearly 40 years of riding, averaging thousands of miles per year, has taught me that even the very best, the very safest riders are vulnerable to that one idiot who's not paying attention.

In spite of the fact that I moan and groan about road ragers, "non drivers", and overly aggressive drivers, I still don't let them upset me. I try to take away some positive from every negative life throws my way. My consolation prize for dealing with clowns on the highway? I'm just happy I'm NOT one of them (to my knowledge) I AM very aware of them though. This thread has pointed out just how common retaliatory driving tactics do occur. And how many people believe it's alright to do so.

Very cool! If we claim the bad actors are idiots and fools and then let them dictate or unduly influence our actions, what does that make us? Why choose to let an idiot or fool make you forget the golden rule. (Accidental rhyme)

I worked with a young engineer who drove super aggressively talking to all the folks out there in their transportation canisters as if it was all a big conspiracy to GET HIM, bother HIM, get in HIS way and on and on. He tailgated swerved at people in traffic, and on and on to SHOW them, get even or whatever. He personified the old cartoon where the angel turns into a devil as son as it got behind the wheel. He was THE poster child for road rage before the term was coined.

Out of his vehicle we was a shy unassuming mild mannered Melbert Milktoast but let him put on his steel car suit and lookout! In retrospect I think he should have got some counseling if not find or found a 12 step program for over the top road ragers.

Pat

 

[scott_vt]

Back in my days as an undergrad physics student

Before I get flamed for recklessness... A good portion of the section of freeway where I "hustled" was very sparsely traveled at the times when I performed the experiments. I do not offer my "youth" as a defense, it was wrong to do it and I wouldn't repeat it nor recommend it. I only share the results of the experiment to emphasize the fact that there is usually not a gain at stake sufficient to warrant the risk.

Pat

Mornin Pat,
Hmmm interesting, I believe I tried similar experiments and was never an undergrad physics student ! Not sure what that would make me ?

BTW : Test vehicles 78 CJ-5 and H2 750 cc Kawasaki " Rocketship ", young and foolish !

 

[rox]

This thread is very interesting. I really do beleive a lot fo road rage comes form havig to stop. One thing I absolutly LOVE about France is the round points. Nobody coming you don't stop. And if there are people coming oyu only have to stop long enough for you to merge into the circle. When I was back in the staes in May i was really anoyed with all the traffic lights and stop signs. Honestly Round Points move traffic the best. Oh and most of them are decorated, landscaped etc. The commities take great pride in have really pretty round ponts with fountains, statures, beautiful flowers etc. Our city is home to the French air acrobatic team so when you get off the expressway the first round point you hit has a big airplane sticking up off a long pole. All that beauty in the round points kind of relaxes you. Plus you never ahve to worry about making a left turn across traffic, you jsut go to the next round point and circle back. The round point have evolved in Franc, 30 years ago there were not that many, now they are all over and they are great. each road leading into the round point has a Yield sign so if oyu are in the round point you have priority.

Also over here if a car comes up behind you on the expressway you MUST move to the next availabel right hand lane. On Monday we were trying to get to a sushi restaurant before it closed and had to drive about 30 minutes to get there so we took the Z28 and my husband was doing 90mph on the expressway and when faster cars came up behind him he moved over. int he states people stay in the left hand lane when they shouldn't that is THE biggest problem I think. Over in Europe NOBODY holds their lane, everybody yields to a faster moving car behind them, thus everybody is always looking int he rearview mirror.

We should say somthing here about the Parisians. for some odd reason they straddle the lanes. And we know they are form Paris because the last 2 numbers on your license plates idenitify what area of france you are from. This is actually very handy because when oyu ae driving you can see that people are from out of town so you understand when they are driving somewhat erratically going fast then slowing down becuase they are looking for a road. Because we know the cars are form out of town we don't get all hot and bothered (except for the Parisians) about it. It is not jsut us, everybody in france has the same attitude, the people form out of town get a 'free ride" becasue they are after all form out of town.

the French do have one really annoying habit. In parking lots if you are backing out they simply do not wait for you, ever. If they can get around you even while you are int eh midst of pulling out they go around you. there are never ever any speed traps or cops on radar either. in fact the Map Quest programs we use clearly show you the rader sations ont he expressway. Actually no that i think about it, there are signs posted on the expresway telling oyu ahead that there is radar, if oyu speed they catch you on camera and you get a ticket. I could eve udnerstand that system. I guess they don't need radar here because they deply a different system fo slowing down cars. hey actually build in traffic hazards. here you will be i a small town and driving nicely in you lane then all fo the sudden you se ahead of you a barricade in your lane and now the 2 lane road goes to 1 lane. For no other purpose than to make everybody slow down. They did a survey here in France and found out that the police actually only work out ont he roads i think it is 16 or 17 hours a week. i guess the rest of the time, they are in the staion house or doing who knows what. the cops here jsut don't do traffic control at all, which is a really wierd concept for me to get used to. You neve have to worry about getting a ticket for speeding here unless you are on the expressway and are to stupid to read the 'Warning radar a head" sign. I our part of Fance the roads are really quite curvey so basically you speed is determined by the physical charastic of the roadway. ow fast can you go with all the curvs. every once in a while they build in a third lane for passing and overall drivig here is a more pleseant experience. However the roads are very narrow non with shoulders so if you ahve a big car, like our mercury mountaineer it ca be a challenge.

one ther thing I really really like is that italy bans semi truck traffic on wekends. We use the expressway that goes from Spain and potugal over to italy so basically we don't get any semi truck traffic on the heavy summer week-ends. It is very ice to drive on the expressways when there are no big trucks on it, very nice.

Honestly I think all of that stopping and waiting you do it he states jsut frustrates people, like sitting at a red light when no one is coming, and puts drivers in a foul mood. you might get backed up a bit at a round point here, but you knwo that you will move at the first available break in traffic not by some stop and go light that is on a timer and doesn't ahve a clue as to when it shuld go red or gree based n traffic. Of course the tolls kill you. it costs of 26 Euros in tolls round trip to make a 2 1/2 hour drive each way. To go to that sushi restaurant 30 minutes each way, cost us 5 Euros in tolls round trip.

 

[Bird]

Rox, my wife and I each just recently completed the AARP Driver Safety Online Course; a driver refresher course and completion gets us a 10% reduction in auto insurance premiums for 3 years. In this particular program, they discuss "round abouts" which I think is the same thing that you call "round points" and which we, in Texas, call "traffic circles". I see that you like them, whoever wrote the AARP course likes them, and Dallas spent a great deal of money and construction to get rid of them. I thought the only thing they were good for was to keep the police busy working crashes. I suppose if your traffic is light enough, they work OK, but they were sure a disaster in Dallas. I've never heard of a single person who wasn't glad to see them gone in Dallas.

 

[N80]

Bird, I have to agree. I think traffic circles are the worst idea on earth.

 

[Defective]

Bird & George,

I'd be willing to bet that, if you spent a few months driving in England or France, you'd change your feelings towards traffic circles.

They DO work well with heavy traffic. But, only if the drivers are used to them. Drivers in North America don't see them often, so don't know how to handle them. There seems to be some kind of mental block on this continent when it comes to the whole concept of merging...

Last time I was in England I drove all the way across London in a car with a manual transmission & didn't put my foot on the clutch once. It was quite pleasant. I defy anyone to name a North American City where I could do that.

 

[Bird]

Defective, since I've never been to Europe, I couldn't say one way or the other. You and Rox may very well be right. But in 1964, 5 & 6, I was one of those cops who got to work accidents at the Harry Hines Blvd. circle in northwest Dallas. As you approached that circle, you could not see straight across it to the other side because of the huge mound of dirt. I had always assumed (you know how that goes) that it was a solid mound until one night about 2 a.m. when I got a call on an accident there. I drove up there, and all the way around the circle and found nothing. So I asked the dispatcher to confirm and he said a car northbound on Harry Hines had supposedly been in an accident there. So I went around looking more carefully and then I noticed tire marks on a curb and noticed a utility pole at the south edge of the mound in the circle. A Plymouth had hit the curb at a high enough speed to get launched into the air, and went through the power pole. The pole had shattered, but the top came right back down onto the lower part so it was hardly noticeable that the pole had been broken. The Plymouth was upside down in the center of the circle and the occupants were long gone. What I'd always assumed was one big solid mound was actually just a berm all the way around the circle, so a car in the depression in the center wasn't visible until you got up on the berm.

 

[hazmat]

Interesting thread

Couple comments - first 'round here they are called rotaries and are fairly common, and at least have consistant rules - ie yield to traffic in the rotary. They cause congestion when the roads are mis-matched in terms of traffic flow - ie the cars on the smaller road are able to get into the rotary & it slows down the major road.

In New Jersey (where I lived for 3 years) I had a couple near misses in thier rotaries - and I quote the NJ driver's liscense manual

Circle Intersections
There are not set rules for driving into, around and out of a traffic
circle in New Jersey. Common sense and caution must prevail at
all times.
In most cases, the circle’s historically established traffic pattern
dictates which driver has the right of way. If a major highway flows
into and through the circle, traffic from that highway usually dominates
the traffic flow pattern by commanding the right of way. Traffic
control signs, such as stop or yield signs, at the entrance to the
circle also govern which driver has the right of way.
Never enter a traffic circle without first checking all signs and determining
the intentions of motorists already in the traffic circle.
If a motorist is in doubt concerning which vehicle has the right of
way, exercise extreme caution and remember the basic rule governing
uncontrolled intersections: The vehicle to the left shall yield
the right of way to a vehicle approaching from the right.​

You can imagine my surprise that cars weren't yielding to me once I was in the traffic circle - (and there was no yield sign in the circle either).

Regarding the cell phone usage - I'm on the road to work between 6-7AM - I'm constantly amazed how many folks are on thier cell phones at that hour. I'm in no mood to be chatty at 6:30AM...

My road rage comes from others generally being inconsiderate of others on the road - whether it is as mild as blocking the passing lane or as serious as endangering the lives of others on the road with reckless driving. I'll often vent my rage with an extra long toot of the horn. Y'all have given me some pause - I'm going to try to count to 10 and think of my happy place. Probably good timing anyway - my 2 year old is becoming quite the mimic - She doesn't need daddy teaching her any dirty words while dropping her off at day care...

Those advocating "punishment" of the other driver by blocking etc - please take a minute to think about that. Is it worth it when they pull out their gun and attempt to take your life because they are having a bad day??? Remember you can't teach stupid anyway - Even in the best case, they aren't going to learn anthing from your "lesson"

I believe the root cause of the escalation in road rage is that driving together on our roads requires cooperation & we are an increasingly selfish society.

If you really want to talk dangerous driving - in Mass breakdown lanes become travel lanes during rush hour on some of the major interstate arteries. We already have the smallest on ramps I've ever driven on (and I've been all around the country) giving you little opportunity to match speed & merge into the right lane. Now you're coming around a clover leaf & have to hope (pray) the guy in the breakdown lane isn't asleep - because y'all are about to occupy the same space...