Yard sales and cell phones. (rant)

[MikePA]

HAZMAT, The folks who are "teaching" the idiot a "lesson" are in fact only proving themselves to be dumber than the object of their fury. Consider the stupid way the idiot is driving. What makes anyone think that someone THAT stupid is going to learn anything from an ill defined impromptu LESSON. The idiot will use the rudeness of the "teacher" as proof that the rest of the drivers are stupid and he is justified in doing what he is doing to get along in a world populated by dumb rude people.

I couldn't agree more.

It never made sense to me to allow my behavior to sink to the level of the worst behavior around me.

 

[LoneCowboy]

traffic circles vs lights

American "drivers" can't even figure out that green means go and you expect them to figure out a traffic circle?

BTW, i hate 'em, they are only good for taking the motorcycle out in the winter and doing knee down(since all the good roads are covered in gravel etc)

 

[Defective]

Bird, you're right about the way the law's were written. (and I wasn't the one who implied any laws had changed) What changed in recent years is the way they're enforced and/or ruled upon in a court of law. I'm on the board of directors of our volinteer FD. A few years back, we dealt with an assistant chief that blew a stop sign and killed a young girl who was turning into her driveway. Once upon a time, she would have been "at fault" or simply no fault directed towards the Asst. Chiefs actions. He ended up facing criminal charges as well as a civil suit.

My sarcasm was more directed at the attitude that it's ok for a volinteer firefighter to shove a car off the road at his own discresion. Sure the driver of the car was wrong. But 2 wrongs don't make a right. And I'd like to think the guy behind the wheel of that 20 ton fire truck would have the sense to NOT run over a motorist regardless of his reasons for wanting to. Our FD would send a driver like that on down the road.....on foot.

The penalty handed to that driver was to re-take the week-long Emergency Driver Course at his own expense. I don't condone his action, but I also don't deny enjoying it.

The law here at the time was such that any driver blatantly ignoring sirens and lights was automatically deemed "at fault" in any collision. This guy not only ignored sirens & lights but also initiated an illegal pass. There was no doubt at the time that he could hear the siren as his windows were open and the truck was within 50 feet of him when he suddenly pulled out onto the shoulder. He WAS charged on both counts.

On the other hand, "blowing a stop sign" has always been a no-no. All emergency vehicles are (and always have been) required to stop for signs & red lights like everybody else. The difference being that they are allowed to proceed through red lights (after stopping...) and everybody else is required to stop and let them through.

I could now start a new rant about tards that can't figure out what sirens & lights mean, but my fingers are getting tired...

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The penalty handed to that driver was to re-take the week-long Emergency Driver Course at his own expense. I don't condone his action, but I also don't deny enjoying it.

The law here at the time was such that any driver blatantly ignoring sirens and lights was automatically deemed "at fault" in any collision. This guy not only ignored sirens & lights but also initiated an illegal pass. There was no doubt at the time that he could hear the siren as his windows were open and the truck was within 50 feet of him when he suddenly pulled out onto the shoulder. He WAS charged on both counts.

On the other hand, "blowing a stop sign" has always been a no-no. All emergency vehicles are (and always have been) required to stop for signs & red lights like everybody else. The difference being that they are allowed to proceed through red lights (after stopping...) and everybody else is required to stop and let them through.

I could now start a new rant about tards that can't figure out what sirens & lights mean, but my fingers are getting tired...

Ignoring the publics saftey while at the wheel of a fire truck isn't judged on a sliding scale. It's either wrong or it's not. Shoving a vehicle off the road, regardless of the fact that the driver was disregarding laws applying to him, was wrong ALSO. Maybe some volunteer FD's allow that sort of behavior or minimize it, but most don't. Ours doesn't. That driver would have been busted back to Jr. Firefighter status IF HE WAS LUCKY. More likely, suspended or dismissed. We hold our guys to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one. The driver in the car was charged in your case. He should have been. So should the driver of the rescue rig. He INTENTIONALLY rammed an occupied vehicle.

Your "tard" as you call him has the same rights as you or me, like it or not. One right is to be PROTECTED by the fire dept. and NOT targeted by a vigilante with a 20 ton truck. The fact that you obviously derive some pleasure from the actions of the trucks driver tells me you simply don't care about the saftey of the public that you were supposed to be protecting as a member of the FD. Sure it's maddening to have someone disregard lights and siren. That doesn't mean you, me, or anyone short of a JUDGE can impose sentence upon this guy on the spot.

There's two distinct types of public saftey personel. With one type, it's a job. With the other, it's an attitude. Attitudes have no place behind the wheel of a speeding fire truck.

 

[Bird]

The fact that you obviously derive some pleasure from the actions of the trucks driver tells me you simply don't care about the saftey of the public that you were supposed to be protecting as a member of the FD.

Nope, it tells me he cares more about the safety of the people they were enroute to help than he does about the idiot who pulled out in front of the fire truck and who obviously did not care about anyone but himself.

 

[rox]

I totally agree with bird on this one. What about the nnocent injured? They ahve to wait while some a**hole shoulderrides? I think the firemen who moved the shoulderriding truck out of the way so they could proceed are heros. They assesed the terrain, found they could move the obsticle to their rescue effort out of the way in a safe manner, and they did it. Kudo's to them. If I was laying there on the other side dying I would want them to move that shoulder rider also. Hey Me First! I am the one ijured and dying, get the heck out of the way of the rescue guys, push them over into a shallow ditch if you have to but jsut get to me. if it can be done safely I am all for it.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Nope, it tells me he cares more about the safety of the people they were enroute to help than he does about the idiot who pulled out in front of the fire truck and who obviously did not care about anyone but himself.

We have a distinct difference of opinion on that. Concern for the saftey of the rest of the guys on the truck would have prevented most people from using that truck as a battering ram. Drivers are taught that the fire/accident/ect will still be there when you get there. Being involved in an accident yourself won't help anyone and may well HARM more people.

I don't for one second discount the wrong of the cars driver. I'm not trying to diminish the danger of what he did. Where I see a problem is with the nature of the way the firefighter in question dealt with the situation. It ISN'T his place to make a decision to ram a car off the road. People make mistakes. Sometimes they make them out of plain ol' stupidity. The cars driver did that. By intentionally ramming the car, the firefighter decided to meet the cars driver on equal terms. That sort of behavior was tolerated back in the "wild west" days, but fortunatly MOST people today have enough sense to deal with a situation in a less dangerous manner.

 

[rox]

FWJ,
Respectfully (and you know I hold you in high esteem) disagree. Give credit to the ability for the firefighter to analyze the situation and make a safe move. Analyzed is the key word. He scoped it out, he could do it and in fact he did it. It is no different than any other peice of equipment approaching a job. How can I use my equipment to accomplish the job and do it safely.

I think i am done disagreening with you though, it is much mre fun to agree.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

FWJ,
Respectfully (and you know I hold you in high esteem) disagree. Give credit to the ability for the firefighter to analyze the situation and make a safe move. Analyzed is the key word. He scoped it out, he could do it and in fact he did it. It is no different than any other peice of equipment approaching a job. How can I use my equipment to accomplish the job and do it safely.

I think i am done disagreening with you though, it is much mre fun to agree.

First off, let me say I USUALLY agree with most of what you have to say, but this is different. All of us are making assumptions based on bits and pieces of information about this individual case. To automatically assume that there was a life and death need to bulldoze a motorist off the road is pure conjecture. Then, do you know beyond any shadow of a doubt that the guy in the car actually knew he was about to pull out in front of a fire truck? Just as likely he DIDN'T as the chance he DID know. Once people are in a panic situation, they don't always react quickly. Sometimes they panic and just freeze. Good chance that happened. What if the guy in the car was your father? Would you feel the same way? The RIGHT way to deal with the situation would have been to exersize a little bit of patience and let the police handle the citation, and a judge handing out a sentence.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm on the board of directors of a vol. fire dept. I am aware of the laws, the common protocol, and the accepted training for drivers. On a number of occasions, I've been a part of hearings dealing with accidents involving fire trucks. Long and short of the story, they simply aren't allowed to take the law into their own hands. Irregardless of WHY, drivers HAVE to obey and respect the law of the road. Start letting them make snap judgements of what laws to follow and what laws to break, and you'll have total anarchy with a big red truck. Emergency personel, be it fire, rescue, police, ect, are there to serve and protect, enforcing laws. NOT to interpret the law as they see fit. That's for a judge and jury.

 

[Bird]

We have a distinct difference of opinion on that. Concern for the saftey of the rest of the guys on the truck would have prevented most people from using that truck as a battering ram. Drivers are taught that the fire/accident/ect will still be there when you get there. Being involved in an accident yourself won't help anyone and may well HARM more people.

I don't for one second discount the wrong of the cars driver. I'm not trying to diminish the danger of what he did. Where I see a problem is with the nature of the way the firefighter in question dealt with the situation. It ISN'T his place to make a decision to ram a car off the road. People make mistakes. Sometimes they make them out of plain ol' stupidity. The cars driver did that. By intentionally ramming the car, the firefighter decided to meet the cars driver on equal terms. That sort of behavior was tolerated back in the "wild west" days, but fortunatly MOST people today have enough sense to deal with a situation in a less dangerous manner.

I'm not sure anyone is really disagreeing with you. I don't think anyone said the fire truck driver did the "right" thing, or that we would have done the same thing, but that doesn't keep us from enjoying the results.

In fact, there was a time when I was in charge of the safety section in the police department, and later when I was a member of our volunteer fire department, I did the driving and use of the lights, siren, etc. instruction. And yes, I "assume" (is it safe to do that?) that all operators of emergency equipment are taught that if you have an accident enroute to an emergency, you not only will not be of any assistance to those who needed you, but you add to the emergency.

So, yep, I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't recommend it to others, but I enjoyed the results.